Fasting & Brain Health + Genius Foods w/ Max Lugavere

Fasting & Brain Health + Genius Foods w/ Max Lugavere



generally I don't eat before I have to take a really important meeting or go on TV actually new research was just published highlighting a new mechanism by which fasting is able to increase alertness by increasing levels of a neurotransmitter that they measured in serum but it's thought to correlate highly with brain levels a neurotransmitter called orexin a so that's a neurotransmitter that's involved in wakefulness alertness there's a pharmaceutical on the market actually that blocks it and it's a sleep aid but researchers have found that actually in humans when studying them during the month of ramadhan when they practice daytime fasting there's a robust increase in orexin a which is also related to higher levels of alertness and it actually makes sense from a evolutionary standpoint I mean no we wouldn't have lasted very long as a species right if we got dumber than minute food wasn't around or less alert so it's speculated that this is a means of helping us find more food when food is not around so when I go on TV usually I will not eat I'll remain fasted but I will drink generally some green tea with a little bit of like lemon in it green tea has any and caffeine which work synergistically it's a new atrophic and it's been shown to boost working memory which is you know your ability to use the information that you have manipulate ideas and spit them out which is very helpful when the cameras start rolling as I'm sure you know welcome back to another video it's Mike Munsell thanks for showing up and tuning in I did wanna let you know that this episode is proudly sponsored by health IQ a progressive and forward-thinking life insurance company that rewards healthy people like you and I for participating and improving our own health through weight lifting getting good sleep not mouth breathing while we're sleeping through regular exercise in eating a low-carb ketogenic style diet guess what we can improve our health parameters reduce our risk of getting age-related chronic diseases like obesity type 2 diabetes and even autoimmunity which you're gonna learn a lot about today so what I highly recommend that if you are proactive about your health and you have dependents you have children you have loved ones that you get a free quote and see if you qualify you can do so by going to health iq.com for shi h i'll put a link right here again that's getting a free quote you're not committing to anything just seeing if you qualify to save a little bit on your life insurance premiums again that quote to see if you can qualify as health IQ com4 / h IH now let's dive back into the show come back yeah yeah got the book coming out I'm excited about it's an awesome book stupid I'm so pumped yeah what I love about the book we're talking about this offline is there's a huge trend towards me only diets carnivorous diets and so many people are I get these messages in comments on YouTube like they're scared of vegetables now like vegetables have antenna nutrients and and they're kind of missing the point you talked about in the book it is kind of it's a great place in New York City you know starting out with the stressful foods right like how like blueberry polyphenols and carotenoids in these these sulforaphane they're actually like they're good for us via their stress induction kind of in the body let's yeah fasting yeah definitely I mean I think that you know based on my sort of meta-analysis of the literature and healthy dietary patterns spanning brain health metabolic health you know body composition I mean I can't I remain always open to new perspectives and new opinions but I can't conceive of a diet that excludes vegetables and low sugar fruits as being a healthful diet especially in light of all the research on the microbiome and the importance of you know a healthy gut mucosa which is basically the hammock upon which you're you know thirty trillion bacterial cells that live in your large intestine like to luxuriate and they've done research where they've you know in animal models where they've basically fed mice fiber deficient diets and they you can literally see the gut mucosa become essentially anemic you know it shrinks and that seems to promote inflammation and you know you can argue that mice or not humans humans are more complex but the digestive tract in mammals is pretty pretty conserved yeah so yeah I mean I think on the other hand Miep seems to get a lot of negative press people have a lot of misconceptions about meat since the last time we talked there is a Netflix documentary that premiered on Netflix that you know made a huge splash and it wasn't really one based in science and it turned a lot of people against meat for sure but when discussing meat I think the term meat is as useless of a category of food as fat you know I mean fat can encompass healthy omega-3 fats that we get from Whole Foods but can also encompass trans fats so as a as a descriptive term for the foods that we're eating I think it's not very useful the same thing with meat at one end of the spectrum we have really unhealthy meat that comes from factory raised animals that are pumped you know full of antibiotics and fed grain and candy and things like that throwaway products and byproducts candy I didn't heard about that yeah it was a CNN article that basically documented this truck that basically tipped over and the truck was full of like skittles and things like that and they they the reporter went to find out where the truck was heading to with all that candy because they weren't in packages or anything like that and they were it was going to a local factory farm Wow so they feed conventionally raised cows candy to fatten them up if there are usually a port in their stomach so I mean it's yeah it's terrible crazy that is awful and so at the other end of the spectrum you've got grass-fed meat that has it's rich in carotenoids so in the book I talked a lot about the value of cotton to the brain which are these plant pigments and animals don't naturally produce them but when a cow is eating grass which contains those fat soluble compounds becomes embedded in their fat and we in turn eat them and they go up to our brains and protect our brains and enhance the way that our brains function so that's why you can actually tell when looking at a piece of grain fed beef and comparing it to grass-fed beef the grass-fed beef the fat is actually more yellowish that's a sign of high carotenoid content and there's virtually no carotenoids in grain fed beef so when talking about nutrient density you know for calorie ounce per ounce and a piece of grass-fed meat you're getting a ton of really valuable brain nutrients yeah so yeah so I definitely consider it a health food and I can't there's not a huge amount of evidence that I can cite in terms of its relationship the relationship you know or the the benefit of meat to protecting against Alzheimer's and dementia and things like that but there is some really interesting research from Australia Deakin University's food and mood Center where they found that women who didn't eat 3 to 4 servings of red meat per week which is the nationally recommended amount of red meat consumption there were twice as likely to suffer from depression or a major mood disorder as women that did actually consume 3 to 4 servings per week and then it seemed to there seemed to be a u-shaped curve where above that number they were also more likely to be depressed so what that suggests to me is that meat provides a bevy of really important nutrients to the brain with the caveat being that in Australia meat tends to be more frequently from higher quality grass-fed grass-finished how does he like lamb and all that exactly yeah that's really interesting speaking of the mechanisms and they if you want to drill down so the nutrient density carotenoids maybe creatine in meats but also you talk about you know some of the the feel-good neurotransmitter serotonin dopamine norepinephrine etc so what was the the mechanisms or were they speculative in terms of like why people that didn't those women didn't consume as much maybe why they didn't feel as good potentially as the women that did was it yeah I mean it's hard to say but there's you know it's a great source of vitamin b12 b12 deficiency is related to depression there is zinc in red meat there's creatine as you mentioned it's the most bioavailable source of hiring one can consume heme iron and in fact researchers speculate that it's not just access to meat but access to cooked meat that actually helped grow our brains help catalyze the growth of our of our brains so rather than turn our backs on that diet I think it's important to try as best as we can to emulate the diet that we consumed during which our brains evolved rather than there's modern tendency to want to you know shy away from that I mean I talked about that hairpin turning human evolution when we went from being hunter-gatherers to settlers we became essentially slaves to the few crops that we can domesticate which paved the way ultimately for the fact that today the vast majority of our calories 60% of the calories that we consume come from three plants wheat corn and rice these are incredibly energy dense plants but they're nutrient poor and that's what come the basis of our diets and particularly today those those grains seem to be ultra refined and pulverized in a way that makes them not only hyper palatable but particularly deleterious to our body's metabolic health and the like so you know we want to have a strong diversity in terms of the plants that we're eating while also incorporating properly raised me and once it's not it doesn't it's not you know brain science to realize that that's a diet that's more harmonious with the diet that we most likely consumed during the time in which our brains evolved so speaking of like going back to your diet I mean how frequently do you have meat and and so forth and what do these meals look like in terms of fighting nutrient density because I know you're interested in fasting and intermittent you know timer shifted feeding and so forth so what do you for breakfast or do you eat breakfast yeah I don't I mean for the first hour – after I wake up I don't need anything I'll drink water maybe I'll drink some black coffee well yeah I mean when we are first arising in the morning we have a hormonal environment in our bodies that wants to burn fat right cortisol which body's chief catabolic hormone is at its peak about 45 minutes after we wake up men does a way of liberating stored energy so that we can carpe diem right like seize the day go hunting whatever it is that we need to do so that's like the perfect fat-burning environment I don't like to screw that up by eating in that window if I do eat I choose to eat foods that don't cause insulin to become elevated because I mean just from a logical standpoint when you have the body's chief catabolic hormone which is cortisol elevated why are you gonna spike insulin which is the body's chief anabolic hormone within that same temporal timeframe it doesn't make a lot of sense so usually I'll stop you know I won't eat for an hour two hours three hours after I wake up I'm not really strict on the window a lot of people obsess over the fasting feeding windows to me it's really more important to honor the body's circadian inclination in the morning to liberate those stored fuels and burn off those stored fuels fuels and fats and then to not eat for three to four hours or two to three hours before I go to sleep again I don't obsess over the the hours necessarily but you know the body has a natural inclination to get up and seize the day in the daytime and it hasn't the same inclination but to wind down at night so when I do decide to break my fast I mean every day I'm pretty committed to eating what I call a huge fatty salad yeah so usually I'll break my fast with a big bowl of dark leafy greens people that consume a big bowl of dark leafy greens every single day have brains that look on scans eleven years younger so no matter what I'm trying to eat a huge fatty salad every single day and I say fatty because some of the most valuable nutrients in those leaves which we mentioned earlier carotenoids are only absorbed in the presence of fat their their absorption you know through the digestive tract is negligible unless you consume them with fat so what kind of fat you know I'm not talking about tortilla strips ranch dressing or cheese I love to throw on extra virgin olive oil a lot of people today are obsessed with you know eating a high fat diet and chasing fat almost as if there's any value to doing that the only fat for which there's a strong body of evidence to really say that it benefits our health is extra-virgin olive oil so right there I'm checking off all these boxes right I've got my dark leafy greens packed with fiber packed with carotenoids magnesium folate I throw on the extra-virgin olive oil which research shows can we encourage brain autophagy you know the ability of the brain to clean up these toxic proteins that can aggregate and form plaques also in written control trials the kinds of trials were required to prove cause and effect they've shown that hi olive oil consumption is associated with better better cognitive function better cardiovascular health metabolic health – so big salad and then over the course of the day I'll snack maybe on you know a handful of almonds which were rich in vitamin E so maybe you know like low sugar beef jerky or beef what's that thing I become obsessed with biltong oh yeah it's basically like a vinegar flavored beef jerky air-dried with no sugar the problem with with a lot of beef Jerky's these days is even if it's grass-fed loaded with sugar oh my gosh yeah even kale chips you can kill have coconut sugar and everything yeah you can't like really hard to find healthy food now that doesn't have sugar exactly but biltong is like I knew it's my new obsession yeah you can epoch borrow some sugar now totus yeah that's like actually the worst you don't want to eat sugar with me yeah you know it's uh that's like one of the major problems because you're getting the the fats and the saturated fats from meat combining that with sugar which can actually potentiate the insulin response from that sugar and I don't think that's a good recipe for health whereas biltong and I have no affiliation with any biltong home with me I've just put on like really interesting really it's super tasty but yeah I mean I try to UM you know concentrate my meals within you know two to three meals per day I try to minimize snacking doesn't always happen if I'm working from home I'm always reaching for almonds nuts dark chocolate you never have around and then for dinner you know I love to go big on roasted vegetables and properly raised meat if I had a workout earlier in the day I'll probably incorporate some kind of starch so sweet potatoes things like that after a workout your muscles basically pull sugar from the blood insulin independent glucose uptake right so you're able to slam back into that fat printing state in less time if you consume starches after a workout as opposed to before or having not had a workout yeah that's it drinking you know it's water throughout the day also trying to you know make sure that I'm getting high quality salt I've become really interested in salt I know you did a great interview with dr. James yeah yeah he's the man I've learned a lot from him toward about you know sodium as a nutrient very important so yeah I mean I just try to like incorporate all these findings and you know through the lens of evolution everything makes sense it's just amazing that you know we we love to overcomplicate nutrition and I think that in part stems from the fact that people tend to feel very religious about their nutritional leanings through the evolutionary lens diet to me makes a lot of intuitive sense so every new finding that I learned just becomes really easy to integrate because it's like just one light bulb going off after another hey friend it's me again with a quick announcement from our show sponsor saw me fix is you may have heard me or many other people on the internet and a health space talked about before mouth taping while you're sleeping can really foster changes throughout your body why because if you're breathing through your mouth while you're sleeping you're really not getting good deep sleep there's this phenomenon as you may have heard before called sleep disordered breathing this is linked with low energy obesity in some resistance cortisol release adrenal dysfunction food cravings and much more saamne fix has made this very very easy you see these hypoallergenic mouth strips that were studied at Harvard University and it's an awesome product so I highly recommend checking it out over on Amazon we're at saamne fixed calm I'll put a little link right here and also in the show notes just curious like so you're on doctor owns quite a bit in a future nutrition expert and so forth like if you really want an answer cognition before going on a show will you do it fasted yeah okay so generally I don't eat before I have to take a really important meeting or go on TV actually new research was just published highlighting a new mechanism by which fasting is able to increase alertness by increasing levels of a neurotransmitter that they measured in serum but it's thought to correlate highly with brain levels a neurotransmitter called Erikson a so that's a neurotransmitter that's involved in wakefulness alertness there's a pharmaceutical on the market actually that blocks it and it's a sleep aid but researchers have found that actually in humans when studying them during the month of ramadhan when they practice daytime fasting there's a robust increase in orexin a which is also related to higher levels of alertness and it actually makes sense from a evolutionary standpoint I mean it we wouldn't have lasted very long as a species right if we got Dumber the minute food wasn't around or less alert so it's speculated that this is a means of helping us find more food when food is not around so when I go on TV usually I will not eat I'll remain fasted but I will drink generally some green tea with a little bit of like lemon in it green tea has theanine and caffeine which work synergistically it's a it's a new atrophic and it's been shown to boost working memory which is you know your ability to use the information that you have manipulate ideas and spit them out which is very helpful when the cameras start rolling as I'm sure you know yeah and then I'll also add some lemon to my green tea which has been shown to actually boost the bioavailability of the catechins in green tea my up to 13 fold well which is great yeah so technically not fully in a fasted State you know because you're metabolizing the concentrator but no sugar but well yeah I guess to a tiny mountain lemon right but that hormone or that neurotransmitter orexin a seems to be a glucose sensing hormone based on what I've read in the literature so as long as you're not eating concentrated carbohydrates I don't believe that that would interfere with that the increase in that neurotransmitter yeah yeah there's so many so much speculation upon what breaks the fast you know is it MCT oil is it butter in the coffee is it does it have to be sugar or fat but if we're defiant like I guess it depends on what are you fasting for exactly you know is it for brain health like you're talking about so that was a newly identified neurotransmitter right or I don't think that it was that the neurotransmitter was identified but I think that it was its relationship to being in a fasted State was identified in humans yeah during these Ramadhan practitioners so very interesting I mean there was another there was another paper that was published that actually showed that decision-making seems to be more prone towards you know beneficial comes when in a fasted state the name of the paper was always gambled while hungry actually and it basically highlighted that there seems to be an improvement in decision making when fasted but this new research that was published brought about the mechanism so I think it's always important basically to look at you know what occurs at the subjective population level or you know observable level but then you know it's it's also important I think to try to understand mechanisms totally so that's so where did we go so wrong because the advice when you and I grew up was we have to have Wheaties we have to have toast like we need a lot of this glucose to stoke the brain and now we're like learning the opposite right because ketones are much cleaner fuels for us they don't create free radicals that you talk about the book so we're in your quest to understand kind of mechanisms that contribute to you know APRA and brain dysfunction did you look at the history of like how we got this so so wrong is it food industry fun day like I think so I mean I think that there's a lot of commerce tied to food you know I mean on top of the religiosity that we feel towards our dietary choices 65% of the planted landmass in the United States is dedicated to growing wheat corn and soy so just massive Commerce tied to these foods and you look at the primary ingredients of most breakfast cereals and their wheat corn and soy right so the notion that these foods are somehow required for human benefit it's you know it's deeply you know it's something that we as a nation aren't deeply invested in yeah there's no human requirement for breakfast you know again through the evolutionary lens if we became irritable and antisocial the minute we didn't have food to eat at 7 o clock in the morning we yeah we wouldn't be here yeah so I mean it's a it's a modern construct so breakfast is a modern invention that being said we are diurnal creatures so we have to take that into account are we meant to not eat during the day and eat only at night like mice No so during the day you do want to eat but the notion of eating as soon as we wake up that we somehow need that for health I think is too detriment particularly if you're metabolically healthy there's really interesting research I know that David Ludwig is a you know he's an obesity researcher at Harvard you know he posts a lot about this kind of stuff on Twitter people that have type 2 diabetes you know maybe they have impaired insulin responses or actually impaired glucose disposal abilities yeah so I mean I think people people with impaired metabolic health might you know maybe have different responses to glucose tolerance when skipping breakfast but that doesn't mean that breakfast is benefiting you for example I think it's we need to regain metabolic health and then we should be able to skip breakfast with no problem in fact as a hormetic stressor again you know being fasted and allowing your body to reacquaint itself with what it means to be in a catabolic state I think is one of the more important aspects of our physiology that we've completely lost touch with in the modern world yeah yeah that's a really good point yeah um you know I found for me like there's a lot of good research on on eating breakfast and gut hormones glp-1 and all that so you know my you talked about like people being religious about their diet you know I think once we kind of figure out like what works for us we get really mad focused on that and then we're like this whole confirmation bias so we're trying to confirm what we already know it's why I was kind of biased towards breakfast for a while and but once I realized it like wow I do feel better cognitively more clear-headed and all that then I just you know like fast until whatever – or something like that but I noticed that it took a little while to feel okay fasting like so some people that are not totally comfortable like they get jittery or they're not metabolically flexible like you talked about David Ludwig's research it takes a little bit to like reactivate you know so exercise that you're a big fan of cold stress like all these factors it's not just your diet yeah I mean so I found like just taking cold showers all these things increase your resilience ability to burn fat better for fuel and affect metabolic flexibility you should be able to go fasted for a significant amount of time without feeling like you want to kill somebody I think that that's a good subjective marker of metabolic health you know being being metabolic inflexible having the ability to use fat for fuel we were able to store fat we should also be able to burn that fat so it's not normal to be angry it's not yeah it's not normal to be especially if you're carrying fat you should not you know I mean that's those are that's basically a Mophie for your brain for you know brain a surplus a brain energy that we each are able to carry around with us why would you know we should be able to tap into that again like I'm not talking about for your average person even needing to go until 2:00 in the afternoon fasting but I don't think that eating as soon as we wake up reaching for that bowl of oatmeal to spike insulin especially when cortisol is already elevated I don't think that that's helpful in fact I mean you can look at really stressed out people our visceral fat has four times the amount of cortisol receptors as adipose fat and or subcutaneous fat rather and you know when you when you see people that are chronically stressed out meaning cortisol is chronically elevated and they reach for carbs to basically reduce levels of cortisol rather than finding a more healthful way of dealing with that with their chronic stress they tend to take on a particular phenotype they have really skinny arms and legs but huge bulging visceral midsections so that's what happens when you're constantly causing insulin to be elevated with particularly rapidly the digesting sources of carbohydrates in the context of a high cortisol hormonal environment and so that's essentially what we're also doing when we eat carbs first thing in the morning we're encouraging our body to redistribute our weight from muscle to fat it doesn't look good for sure but it's also not healthy because visceral fat is the most inflammatory type of fat yeah yeah a good perspective let's transition to the brain a little bit back you know I think it's what I've read in the book that thought is really really fascinating though when we think about brain health you know I think this school of thought that we need to learn an instrument learn a foreign language travel like there's all that neuroplasticity and then there's this whole field of metabolic research that you inve on the book and like insulin degrading enzyme and so forth so so you talk about how it's not really good to eat before bed yeah because insulin kind of purple there was an allergy it's escaping me that used boat meal yeah let's talk about sticky Oh me yeah yes yeah so basically I mean anybody who's ever put dried out oatmeal stuck on a bowl into a dish wotcher understands this chemical concept of solubility right for oatmeal to be effectively washed off of a bowl you've got to keep the oatmeal soluble right you've got to put water in a bowl as soon as you finish otherwise it's gonna gunk up and become like glue and it's not gonna be washed off easily by your dishwasher so that's basically the analogy that I use in the book to describe amyloid which is the protein that aggregates to toxic levels and alzheimerís disease now amyloid hasn't been established as the causative force in Alzheimer's disease certainly in later stages it probably is a causative factor but for a mowing to be cleaned up and washed away over the course of your sleep which we now know sleep is actually like it turns your brain into essentially a dishwasher thanks to the climatic system we know that amyloid needs to stay soluble and one of the ways to do that is to keep blood sugar it seems from being chronically elevated and the best way to do that is to eat a diet that doesn't for one chronically stimulate or chronically raise your levels of blood sugar but also a diet that keeps your body metabolically healthy so that you can maintain sensitivity to insulin so yeah when we sleep we have these ducts that have sort of piggybacked on the brains arterial system that's swell and swooosh cerebrospinal fluid all throughout basically purifying our brains every night when we sleep it's pretty amazing jeffrey Iliff and his team at at university of rochester discovered this network of ducts and they've named it sort of after the lymphatic system which it resembles the diet glymphatic interaction I mean it's a newly discovered system so we don't have you know all the answers certainly but what some of the researchers that I've spoken to over the course of writing a book believe is that by keeping insulin low particularly when we go to sleep and by not causing it to you know become elevated with carbohydrate-containing or concentrated foods we can sort of stoke the ability of lymphatic system to properly do its job it's sort of like scrub the brain of submarines motors that have been used in waste and everything yeah scrub the brain of that amyloid the precursor protein that basically aggregates and forms these plaques animal models have also shown that Omega threes can help the glymphatic system properly function also its most active during slow-wave sleep so fiber consumption has been related to greater slow-wave sleep which is another reason why i think it's so important to eat that you know a diet rich in vegetables and there was another study that came out recently about the climatic system that it's escaping me but yeah i mean it's it's important sleep is very important so there's a lot of people experimenting these days with like compressing their sleep monophasic sleep i think it's called i just don't see that as being healthy from a from a brain perspective obviously i remain open but you know we really want our brains to flush out these proteins as we sleep because they are created in all of us and they are related to Alzheimer's disease certainly so you know i think if we have the opportunity to enhance our sleep and reduce the risk of our brains becoming amyloid landfill's let's let that happen right so early yeah I want dive into that what what emmalin's doing– but I mean it's funny just like two days of sleep deprivation like today for example traveling east to west and so forth I can notice a huge difference I haven't done any quantitative EEG or anything like that but my or ring tells me you know that traveling getting up early and all that so that's it's really interesting but what is amyloid-beta doing in the brain like so it's causing these plaques to build up and then what what does that do well it's actually it's unclear exactly what amyloid is therefore but recent research out of Rudy Tansy's lab at Harvard you know seems to suggest that it is a it serves an antimicrobial purpose which is very interesting it seems to be increased when the brain is inflamed it seems to be this protective protein that over time if it's chronically stimulated can become problematic particularly when it's not properly flushed away amyloid when it becomes aggregated to form these plaques seems to compound the damage that's done so I think I think really that's why the onus is on prevention that's why I think pharmacist research that have targeted amyloid as a therapeutic treatment mechanism for Allison was disease have failed so frequently because we're looking in the long reign the we're demonizing the wrong the wrong thing basically this similarly to you know what has kind of happened to cholesterol over the years you know cholesterol was found in the arteries of cadavers that have died from heart disease therefore cholesterol is the causative fact and heart disease that's the the diet heart hypothesis right I think it's very similar to what has really directed pharmaceutical inquiry into Alzheimer's disease over the past couple of decades because on death which was only wood was the point at which the brains obviously of cadavers can really be examined people who have died from Alzheimer's disease their brains were riddled with plaque so similarly to what has happened with cholesterol it was assumed that this plaque is the causative factor in Alzheimer's disease but as with cholesterol I think all the research now is suggesting that it's more of sort of a you know it's there at the scene of the crime unfortunately but it's not the it shouldn't be it's not suspect number one at this point anymore yeah promoters research I know he's been talking about that for a while about how my beta does how they is associated with the inflammation associated with microbes an infection and yeah I think herpes simplex 1 and cytomegalovirus I can't remember this specific pathogens but I think that's really interesting so it's almost as though it was like cholesterol or insulin or whatever like if you just target insulin in a diabetic and if I ignore their blood sugar they're still gonna have complications associated with that so yeah um but what I heard you say right there and he talked about this in the book and he'd been speaking about this for a while it's just that's where the pharmaceutical model kind of misses the targets are going after one mechanism but not addressing the root cause which is multifactorial well it's that's why Alzheimer's drug trials have a ninety nine point six percent fail rate that's all that's a higher fell rate than the trials for any other disease state essentially in fact Pfizer recently basically pulled the plug on their trials for an Alzheimer's treatment because they're looking in the wrong place is a disease that the brain 30 to 40 years before the first symptom and there are other biomarkers that have been discovered that are associated with the disease that emerge far earlier than this amyloid plaque and when we look at the health of the body insulin resistance in the body is related to plaque buildup in the brain that was research done by I believe it was Suzanne Kraft yeah so I mean things that promote inflammation in the body and and which we already know about right like insulin resistance chronically elevated blood sugar are related to these features in the brain and so I think I just I think that we were looking in the wrong place for all these decades we're looking in the brain when the answer is most likely in the body and related to our diets our lifestyles and all these other things I don't over the course of my you know journey writing genius foods I don't I'm very careful not to point the finger at carbohydrates exclusively as being the smoking gun in Alzheimer's disease I think it's so multifactorial you know it's our chronic stress it's the these industrial oils that have that have become ubiquitous in the food supply that are just as damaging if not more so to the brain than these than carbohydrates mm-hmm there was a study in rats in canola oil and canola yeah exactly that's unfortunately like you go to Whole Foods it's everywhere I was gonna ask you to I don't want to deviate too much but I love olives like just real olives and I can't find them without sunflower oil like yeah yeah I mean not that that's the most toxic substance in the world but but these oils do auxin eyes like it really low temperatures right yeah well they've an animal study was just published I just post it on my Facebook page yesterday for that found that AHA a high sunflower oil diet imposed pretty profound oxidative stress on the liver of rats and they compared it to extra-virgin or just virgin olive oil and they found that in terms of promoting lifespan and health span and these and these animal models virgin oil was the best virgin olive oil was the best so yeah I think avoiding polyunsaturated oils in the diet very important I mean I'm even not a fan of going crazy with the fish oil I think fish oil is very important from a high quality source we want to be really cautious over the fish oil that we're consuming but polyunsaturated fats generally speaking which cludes omega-3s and omega-6s I think we're meant to consume in Whole Foods in trace amounts and yeah in terms of the the bulk the majority oil that seems to promote health I think it's monounsaturated fat maybe secondarily saturated fat and then tertiary yeah would be polyunsaturated fat but I think monounsaturated fat is the healthiest mm-hmm yeah it's interesting and a lot of people that are inflamed a lot of doctors recommend super high doses of the polyunsaturated we'll make it 3 zp ad a chance or that would like in some cases like depression or autoimmune diseases like 15 grams per day which is very high so it's interesting that you bring that up while it may have an anti-inflammatory effect and affecting you know various downstream inflammatory signaling pathways it's prone to oxidation it's very polyunsaturated so yeah yeah kind of interesting to think about biome and Omega threes are more vulnerable to oxidation than Omega 6s mm-hmm because an oil is a it becomes vulnerable the more double bonds it has basically and Omega threes have more double bonds in omega sixes yeah and they have both of those you know they're polyunsaturated Pot the poly means that they have multiple double bonds mono means that they've got one so monounsaturated fats are always gonna be more stable and saturated fats don't have any but Omega threes are more vulnerable to the two the two light heat and oxygen than omega sixes so that's why even though canola oil is often considered to be the most healthy of the polyunsaturated and industrial oils because it has a smidgen more omega-3s it's actually completely misguided information because Omega threes are even more vulnerable and so that makes them make canola oil even more dangerous because of the the likelihood that you know a greater proportion of that oil is oxidized hmm yeah scary stuff all right going back to brain there's a few things I think people really should know and that's at elevated levels of HDL and LDL I believe over 65 is protective against dementia talk about that book can remember the exact study but I think that's really important you know people like our parents age who want to preserve their brain health doctors are telling them that they need to get on a statin right to lower the cholesterol but there's a seemingly protective effect yeah well basically I mean when you when you get your standard cholesterol panel which is what 99% of people are going to get when they go and they get their cholesterol tested by their doctors what though what the doctors are essentially doing is weighing the massive cholesterol in your body they're weighing the cholesterol what's like the free-balling equation is really like an extrapolation yeah yeah but when you when you weigh something the analogy that I use in the book is like a highway highway a and highway B on both highways you have 100 passengers right highway a 100 passengers highway be a hundred passengers on highway a those passengers are traveling in five buses on highway B those passengers are traveling in a hundred cars highway B is gonna be more prone to pile ups to road damage Road erosion and delays than highway a which has those five buses on them right so your standard cholesterol panel essentially what that's doing is it's it's it's basically weighing what's on the road but five buses and a hundred cars because they they're all carrying a hundred people might weigh comparable amount so it doesn't tell you anything about road conditions when you get your LDL P measured which actually tells you the amount of particles you are actually figuring out with that number the amount of vehicles on the road and so although the science is evolving it seems that all things considered having a higher LDL P seems to be the more risky biomarker or the more reliable Bart biomarker for assessing cardiovascular risk than your standard LDL panel which basically weighs the amount of cars in the road and people on the road without telling you nothing about road conditions and those buses basically what those buses are are is your particle size so when we have large fluffy LDL particles shooting around in our in our vasculature they're basically buses and all of these lipoproteins are V LDL particles when they're sent out from the liver they're in the form of buses but over time they shrink they become more like cars basically creating this traffic this backed up traffic in the in the blood and so we talked about in the boat ways of making sure that your particles stay large and fluffy and one of the ways to do that or I guess the chief way to do that is to make sure that your liver is able to properly recycle these lipoprotein carriers before they get too small and you know there's genetic factors and again it's it's it's evolving and you know we actually don't know what actually causes heart disease we again have correlates but it's the same thing with brain disease we you know people lay people like me prior to writing this book and really going on this journey think that medicine has all the answers but medicine doesn't have all the answers medicine is not a an infallible measure of truth you know science is a method of finding things out of asking questions and seeking answers but I mean our bodies are so complex they're infinitely complex and that's why really anybody who purports to have all of the answers I think you've got to be really weird weary of skeptical yeah yeah yeah yeah that's really really fascinating point out I definitely want to get into how you got into the research because I think that's really a powerful thing but but want to go back to the LDL P I think that's interesting when it comes to brain health I mean I you know go to Elliot particle testing and phenotypic testing and there's a Boston heart and Berkeley heart and all that LDL P is it associated with dementia and Alzheimer's I haven't looked at that research um I'm not familiar with any research relating that specifically to dementia and Alzheimer's but my one of my colleagues at the Alzheimer's prevention clinic here in New York City has observed in his clinic that you know a greater number of small dense LDL particles seem to be related to lower than expected performance on tests of executive function in his you know prevention population which is basically young healthy people that's that hasn't been validated or proven but it would make sense from from a mechanistic standpoint you know the livers ability to recycle cholesterol particles is impeded on by inflammation and things like that and these are all factors inflammation can affect the way that the brain performs so I think you know concrete answers remains to be borne out in the literature but but everything is connected you know and especially when we look at cholesterol-lowering medications that basically lower the body's synthesis of its cholesterol production that has been you know related to cognitive problems that in extreme cases can look like dementia so the body's cholesterol system is really important in terms of the brain how it is directly related you know we don't yet know but but that's why I'd be very weary of you know ever in my own you know for myself taking a cholesterol-lowering medication and you know definitely being more vigilant about lab reports that I get and looking into them and really kind of trying to understand what's going on as opposed to just treating something in my body based on a number yeah that doesn't necessarily cause heart disease its associated potentially in damaged men yeah yeah I mean I think I don't think that a cholesterol is a problem I think it's a it's always gonna be there at the scene of the crime and so it's very easy to sort of put a spotlight on and to throw in the lineup but yeah I think that you know inflammation is I think more closely tethered to heart disease risk and heart disease risk relates to the brain because the brain is fed blood and nutrients by a vascular bed you know of nearly 400 miles worth of micro micro vessels that supply blood and nutrients of the brain I don't think that cholesterol is a bad guy I think that keeping cholesterol that the cholesterol that is in your body healthy I think is very important and keeping those lipoprotein carriers healthy is very important and there and I think lies its relationship to disease cholesterol is a fatty waxy substance and like other fats it's prone to oxidation so when we have our blood sugar chronically elevated and gleich aiding those lipoproteins and causing inflammation in our blood vessels and particularly in the context of you know the damaged polyunsaturated oils that were consuming now ad nauseam I think takes these otherwise benevolent molecules which are which is which are very important you know every cell has cholesterol in it and making those making those molecules go back essentially by just figuring them by making them oxidized essentially in our own bodies yeah it's super the Foxit of LDL oxidation it's really interesting it and so the small LDL P the small dense those little cars in the road now big buses talked about highway a highway B those are prone to becoming modified or oxidized and damaged well yeah because they're spending that when those particle when those lipoproteins are shipped out they're all in the form of buses essentially and so when they're small they've they've had spent more time in the bloodstream in proximity to oxidative products and byproducts and makes them more prone to causing trouble and also embedding themselves in the vascular bed where they can become you know lodged and you know accumulate immune cells and form that fatty streak yeah its characteristic of atherosclerosis yeah black and all that yeah but that can also occur in the brain as well I mean that's what the second most common form of dementia is basically mini strokes in the micro vasculature supplying you know food essentially to the brain yeah so crazy stuff you know it's funny when you're talking about like so leop I mean just kind of summarize is basically a proxy of metabolic inflexibility reso livers kicking out a bunch of more cholesterol molecules and so one of the tests that I'd love to recommend to people because not everyone has access to these advanced lipoprotein particle tests just an APO be people like for protein B test so on the LDL remnant lipoprotein but all elio they're gonna have a puppy so very inexpensive proxy to look at this as we know that's linked to metabolic and flexibility right and that's linked to aberrant insulin levels insulin affects the housekeeping functions within the brain we talked about in the book a few different complex enzymes which I think are pretty fasting irs-1 insulin receptors something one substrate wanna yeah an IDE so let's kind of finish off like we're how these when they're high they're correlated with and brain disease yeah so I mean this and science is still sort of figuring all this stuff out but irs-1 is a it's found in higher it's inactive form is found in higher amounts and Pete and people that seem to be at risk for Alzheimer's disease in fact one of the major focuses now I think for research in terms of combating the epidemic of Alzheimer's disease and dementia that we're seeing in the Western world is starting treatment or or intervention interventions earlier because it's known that Alzheimer's begins in the brain decades before the first symptom so early diagnosis and and finding biomarkers that are associated or that are that are evident in people who will ultimately go on to develop Alzheimer's disease is really important so that we can take steps to you know minimize our risk somehow and one of these and the and the notion of using a blood test to do this is very enticing you know because doing a spinal tap I mean doing brain scans these are all very expensive very invasive to the idea of finding a biomarker in blood is just like a dream right now so scientists found this this irs-1 compound that is related to insulin resistance in the brain and they found that within ten years they were able to predict with 100% accuracy whether or not a person was going to develop Alzheimer's disease based on their levels of the inactive form of this compound in blood irs-1 and so that's really exciting um you know and I actually haven't heard anything since that research was published about irs-1 it's it's not being used clinically at this point but it is really compelling to me if you could tell somebody ten years before they were gonna develop it that they were going to ultimately be diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease you would put that person on a strict exercise regimen clean up their diet in fact the guidelines for treatment for a mild cognitive impairment which is often considered pre dementia we're just updated to include exercise for the first-time exercise as a disease modifying treatment for people with this pre dementia which often but not always converts to full-blown Alzheimer's disease you're not like what's the timeframe they're like time skills so if you're starting to get is it 10 years 20 years but reports for from mild common to Alzheimer's disease I'm not sure yeah I'm not sure but anyway covet exercises and and and and cognitive impairment can be the result of many things that that won't necessarily convert to Alzheimer's disease so it can be you know there are pseudo dementia as people can be so depressed that they you know mimic that their outward expression that makes that of dementia there can be medical reasons and so that's why it's always important if you're having memory problems to go see a doctor to rule out any medical causes but yeah oftentimes MCI does does progress to Alzheimer's disease it's a major risk factor for for developing Alzheimer's disease and so the idea of being able to intervene early even before mal got mild cognitive impairment I think is a it's a dream scenario for somebody who is at risk and there's really good you know the world's first long term long term large population randomized control trial in patients that were at risk for developing cognitive decline found that a battery of lifestyle interventions actually significantly delayed cognitive decline so these interventions matter and they're effective and that's why the guidelines for MCI were recently updated that was bredda since work right that was not that was Mia catapult oh and at the no at the Karolinska Institute okay sweet in the finger trial Wow yeah yeah yeah we document that in the in the first chapter of the book and I've actually went there to documented for breadhead cool so yeah awesome yeah that was probably the most inspiring interviews that you've done right because yeah this battery I mean a lot of researchers look at like ID Brett ISM sites this trial Wow so Britain while I'm a fan of his work in his direction that he's taken he's published very impressive case studies but Mia catapult Oh I mean her trial involves 1,200 people with regular check-ins it's an ongoing trial and these were at risk patients rigorously documented and yeah I mean she was a real deal she said that her research the finger trial provides the strongest evidence to date that cognitive decline is not an inevitable aspect of aging so profoundly awesome Wow so what was the inclusion criteria were people that they have memory issues going into it or these are random samples they did not they all had at least one risk factor so whether it was age depression loneliness things like that they were at risk so and they were older they were an older population but they were asymptomatic they were pre-symptomatic and over the course of two years what they found was that by adhering to this battery of lifestyle interventions so you know it was a it was a there was exercise there's nutritional counseling social support groups they found that these patients who were not only able to delay cognitive decline but improve their processing speed by 150 percent and improve their executive function by 83 percent and this is an older at-risk population so I mean we talked about neuroplasticity like that's incredible but it's also assigned to me that just how effective our lifestyles and our diets are in terms of you know modulating brain function mm-hmm and this trial is ongoing so they actually also recently announced the first the first round of results that were published didn't differentiate between a pulley for carriers and non-carriers apoe4 is the most well defined Alzheimers risk gene what they found is that even in patients and this was recently published with the apoe4 allele lifestyle interventions were just as effective if not more so for they know for that yeah yeah yeah that is confusing in a low-carb high-fat community if you have April we've four allele what does that really mean and all that have you tested yourself yeah um I'm basically of the opinion and based on not nutritional dogma but the researchers that I've talked to not one of them who is deeply involved in Alzheimer's prevention and our practicing clinicians are Pro eating a high saturated fat diet and it actually makes a lot of sense to me that I mean the low-fat craze over the past 50 years was bad we know that it was built on shoddy and you know I'm glad that the tides are now starting to turn but the pendulum is also swinging in the other direction now where people are pounding butter and coconut oil and things like that right when you look at a cow that is sort of our domesticated version of a wild and like a cow was not a wild animal how does a domesticated passive passive thing yeah Neil deGrasse Tyson had this quote got a lot of for it but he basically said that like a cow is a human creation designed to turn grass into steak mmm right you know we can learn a lot from cows and we know that when a cows fed grass as its predominant food it has less saturated fat and it's meat content then a cow that's been fed grain so what that tells me well it offers a hint as to the relative proportion of saturated fat that were meant to consume in a proper diet when we're eating animals that are fed what they actually want to eat they have less saturated fat so I don't think that eating and it's a better yea sticks of butter an excessive amount of saturated fat is necessary for anybody but I also think that it might be potentially deleterious to you know to to brain health do I make any restriction over saturated fat when consumed when contained in Whole Foods no but yeah I do I think you know and one of the reasons for this is that saturated fat reduces the amount of LDL receptors on the liver so that can actually impede LDL recycling which is really important for maintaining you know those large buses as opposed to having a bloodstream filled with small dense cars as opposed to buses or and it's not known really the impact that or the mechanism by which a point force seems to mediate the increased risk for cardiovascular disease that confers and the increased risk for Alzheimer's disease but I think it's thought that it didn't put imposes on LDL recycling and so saturated fat might affect LDL recycling by way of the LDL receptors on the liver a lot of speculation there obviously but but yeah I mean to me it makes sense and you know there's no evidence that consuming of excessive saturated fat boosts brain health anyway so why do it you know I think it's always wise to hedge your bets totally on the other hand when talking about things like grains there's no biological requirement for grains they're energy dense nutrient poor so they're you know I say there's no need to consume foods like that either so yeah I just you know I think it's really important to take a balanced and scientifically sound approach and if in five years ten years it turns out that eating six of butter is great for the apoe4 brain then you know what I'll adjust my my recommendations right right but I love your approach and it's not that popular I want to say in the low carb high fat community to say that you have a lot of stored energy in your body and use that as the fuel to make ketones a lot of people want to just change your diet and and maybe not exercise as much and obviously diet plays a huge role but I love that you know in your Instagram stories in your Facebook you know so many people think a ketogenic diet is exogenous ketones MCT oil and CT powder all that but you know I mean if we think about like our ancestors they didn't have access to all these tools they were making ketones from I think there's this trend now to to UM hack your way into it well yeah but also like we in the fitness community have said for a long time don't drink your calories right referring to sugar and juice and soda and things like that right why should it be recommendation be any different when those calories come from fat we shouldn't drink our calories whether they're from fat or exogenous ketones I think that there are applications for exogenous ketones and mc2 oil for sure like I think that the potential cognitive boost for patients with Alzheimer's disease who develop a food preference for sweeter foods I think all really great I think in terms of weight loss and satiety fat burning things like that I think that there's a lot of confusion so I just you know I want people to like be able to make informed consent when purchasing these products and using them I mean people that are trying desperately to lose weight and on ketogenic diets and slamming MCT oil and things like that yeah you know I think you can still eat too many calories on a ketogenic diet consuming a lot of you know nutrient sparse oils and fats I'm not a big fan of eating a lot of added fats I mean with the exception of extra-virgin olive oil which I try to consume two to three tablespoons of a day in terms of like nutrient density oils and fats are not very nutrient dense mm-hmm yeah good point so I guess it's a controversial no one's I think I do they'll be said it really needs to be said because yeah a lot of people are trying to buy their way into it hack the way into it without causing that metabolic shift within their body via exercise like you talked about cold stress is one with brown adipose tissue and then you know the time should feeding and or intermittent fasting is awesome fats also do not promote satiety the whey protein does for example so I think if you're trying to feel a greater sense of satiety go for Whole Foods protein and things like that you know I mean full fat Greek yogurt chicken breast general egg which has a lot of collagen in it actually very good also an under consumed protein a piece of steak I mean in terms of wanting to feel satiated yeah protein seems to actually have the biggest impact mm-hmm yeah post-workout instead of whey protein I do raw egg yolks for my chickens in the backyard so oh I'm amazing yeah um you know I figured I'm like I'm buying but one of the things in February my goal is to not have processed not have any food in the package and that's hard to do right but just to make sure that I'm getting vegetables right from either the store my backyard or a farmer even meat you know it comes in a package I'm trying to get it direct um I think we under economists like the the amount of endocrine disrupting chemicals that we're all exposed to it so anyway the point of Tony that backstory is like the whey protein it's in it's in a plastic jar I mean yeah it's a HDPE plastic probably not leaching BPA and whatever but and so it's been amazing this satiety inducing effect of just like three raw egg yolks post-workout Mike man why didn't I think about this earlier everyone's buying a protein powder and always um so anyway kind of like to reinforce to people like you can eat real food in applications where normally the fitness industry is trying to encourage us it to buy some sort of package for fines yes and look like oh I take whey protein occasionally whey protein is actually really high in in like sulfur containing amino acids which are really good for your body's detox pathways so it's a really but it's also very insulin a genic protein as well but also I love to lift weights and workout and stimulate muscle protein synthesis so I mean that's why I'm taking away protein yeah I just you know I I like supplements I have nothing against the supplement industry or I'm a fan of food producers that are you know putting out healthy products and you know I yeah so I nothing against them I think I think it's really up to the consumer to be informed about the choices that they're making and to not fall victim to to marketing at the end of the day you know I was at a grocery store the other day and I saw they're now making organic Doritos and Cheetos you know which yeah gluten-free though there yeah yeah I mean it's just it's mind-boggling and you know on the one hand I'm happy that for a you know for a mom that wants to basically supply somewhat healthier products to their children that have maybe had a taste of Doritos at their friend's house that that option exists but they're actually those foods are not really healthier at the end of the day it's where we believe that they're healthier because they're slapped with that buzzword that they're organic and for somebody who's a busy parent as you know you're a parent and I think you know it can be really misleading and really challenging to sort of cut through that so I just you know I mean my that's that's what my mission really at the end of the day is it's to provide information for people so that they can make informed consent I feel that my mom ultimately which is the reason why I got into this to begin with was victimized in many ways by the food industry by the government recommendations by things like that so my hope is to help prevent others from becoming victimized in the same way I certainly don't want to be victimized by misinformation I want to prevent that from happening to other people so so that's what drives you yeah so mission yeah I could yeah I grew up consuming corn oil I mean I grew up in in a apartment in New York City with access to healthy food you know I was fortunate my parents were able to afford healthy food nonetheless my refrigerator was stocked with margarine and there was always corn oil about stove and I was told growing up not to eat eggs because they contain cholesterol it's bad for the heart so that advice was truly rooted in science then I wouldn't use of the V word the victim word right but now I know based on my research that those guidelines and that that nutritional advice was the end result of money you know profiteering and the sugar industry lobbying and and investing in huge you know heart associations the Heart Association and that trivets way bad data tripled its way down to the government recommendations and the food industry basically exploiting our collective ignorance at a time when nutrition science was just being born so that's why I'm you know I used the the V word and yeah but that still continues to happen today you know like it still continues to occur I mean there's the New York Times recently published that these soda companies have a they formed an organization basically to put the blame of the national obesity epidemic on inactivity and sedentary lifestyles as opposed to food and things like that but this is an organization literally funded by the sugar industry I've actually been I've posted articles about how dangerous added sugar consumption can be and I've been tweeted rebuttals by organizations that are funded by the sugar industry hmm so I mean it's like they're censoring media to visit about yeah yeah yeah Wow so shocking yeah I mean the advert I mean but Super Bowl just happened this past week and I mean there's Pepsi all over and Gatorade and yes it's there's big money going on there and coming back to the brain a little bit one of the things that intrigued me about the book and you talked about this in our last nerve you which I'll post a link below this this video and so forth is one characteristic of a demented brain or a brain with Alzheimer's is the inability to like utilize glucose properly because us ones so is that a big mechanism here maybe there's inflammation which we talked about cholesterol and lipid signaling and so forth but are basically these brain cells like star for energy yeah that's how the MCT oil and fasting and all these lifestyle modalities is helping to reincorporate ketone yeah derived energy sources well yeah I mean diminished glucose metabolism is absolutely a feature of a brain with Alzheimer's disease by the time somebody's diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease whether or not they carry the apoe4 allele brain glucose metabolism has been reduced by 45 percent according to the framing Framingham Heart Study that seems to be the unifying thread that links that really because if you look at the apoe4 allele people that carry that seem to have slightly diminished glucose metabolism in their brains throughout life I mean essentially they've done scans and twenty-year-olds and found that there's a reduced glucose metabolism in you know a point for carriers so that to me seems like as a very early marker associated with Alzheimer's disease a potential causative feature and in fact when people develop insulin resistance and even obesity that seems to affect their brains ability to produce energy from glucose so it's tied to lifestyle factors that we already know you know and conditions that we already know are not good for us so that's why I think you know nurturing the body's metabolism as a means of protecting brain metabolism I think is very beneficial and also the ability of a brain to you to generate energy from ketones is not deterred by aging or Alzheimer's disease or the apoe4 a little and the a pony for allele is considered to be the ancestral version of the apoe4 protein so it seems to me that and you know this was a term coined by Sam Henderson that our keto deficient lifestyles have basically been to the detriment of our brains that remains to be a really you know hot topic for Alzheimer's disease and it's there's a lot of really four years ago five years ago maybe a few papers mentioned Alzheimer's disease as a form of diabetes of the brain but now there's there are many papers it's become sort of a growing chorus of researchers clinicians who are really approaching Alzheimer's disease as a metabolic problem in the brain and for the first time this year a dietary intervention a ketogenic diet area intervention in patient with mild Alzheimer's disease was was tested and it seemed to promote a better cognitive function while they were on that diet for patients with Alzheimer's disease which is really key because prior to that study it was tested in patients with mild cognitive impairment one of my friends Robert Krekorian was the researcher in that trial and so now we have data on patients with Alzheimer's disease that it seems that ketones are able to sort of provide an energetic life raft for the brain is that the is that the cure for Alzheimer's disease I don't think so um because adherence is very difficult in fact it's particularly hard on the caregivers and as I mentioned briefly Alzheimer's patients to actually develop a sweet tooth because it's speculated that it's their brain sort of crying out for energy in the form of sugar which is ironic because that's the exact processed foods are the exact kinds of foods that promote inflammation and seem to be related to reduce glucose metabolism in the brain but yeah I am a fan of the notion of using ketones and being in a intermittent ketogenic diet throughout life I think that that's important especially in light of the notion that the April before allele is potentially our ancestral version of the genes so prior to Agriculture you know when food availability was more unstable right unpredictables you know I'm particularly yeah gosh it's amazing amazing stuff so keto can be good but it's not the end-all be-all yeah I think I think hito is definitely good I think I think you know over the course of one's life acquainting your brain with using ketones as a fuel I think is likely very beneficial mm-hmm in terms of allowing it to generate energy and yeah I mean the glucose hypometabolism thing is a pretty profound feature I mean the fact that it's diminished by 45% and brains summers disease is pretty startling yeah that's amazing I mean I have a lot of questions about the hippocampus and what brain regions and all that but you talk about that in the book one thing that I think it's interesting about the fingers trial you mentioned is loneliness you know we talk there's a lot of like biohacking tools out there right sleep enhancing strategies daylight circadian rhythm balances you know all these different foods that we talked about we don't have a way to hacked loneliness and feeling of like being connected but that's a big element to like a lot of different diseases what tools do you have for people you know a lot of people now like they they don't have families or they have like a big social media following but but not a lot of close connections like I'm sure that comes you think about that right like hah that's that's one thing that's kind of hard to like course-correct I would imagine so what sort of strategies do you have for people there yeah I mean it's a really important question loneliness is a toxin you know it's a I think people just yeah I don't know I mean I do think social media is a way of feeling connected for people that feel disenfranchised and and isolated for whatever reason yeah I don't know I mean I think you know feeling that it's okay to reach out I think that's important people that are lonely can sometimes feel a sense of shame about their loneliness I think it's important to drive home that it's okay to feel lonely everybody does mhm occasionally and especially when you're an entrepreneur and you're on the road all the time and you're kind of carving your own career path like myself you know sometimes I feel like I'm in a very unique space and you know there are very few people that I know of that can relate to what I'm going through as a media entrepreneur trying to carve this niche for myself I mean I I'm sure you can relate because you're doing your own thing too which is amazing I do think that social media has has been really valuable in helping people find their tribe you know through so I have got friends on social media that that I truly feel that I'm good friends with even though you know I've maybe hung out with them in person once or twice and it can be it can be very useful if you're living in a small town and you know you're dealing with something you feel like you're you know unable to connect with people in your town I think social media is a great window to the outside world yeah social media also comes with its pitfalls you know it's possible to become addicted to social media and comparing yourself to others and yeah yeah a section that becomes problematic too yeah but yeah I mean I think I think we live in a great time for connection and I just think keeping recognizing social media for what it is a tool a window a door is really important ultimately you have to step through that door and take that risk but yeah lonely loneliness is profound so I think if you're feeling lonely reach out say hi to me on social media holy yeah yeah I love your following like on Facebook particularly because you have a lot of science there too so definitely follow max on Instagram Facebook but yeah I mean you know it's it's more sexy to talk about heart rate variability continuous glucose monitors and all these different devices that we can hack our biology but I think a lot of people especially as you make lifestyle changes you become more healthy a pic you're you're not eating grains not going out and having bread and alcohol you really like confine your social connections and that can be kind of isolating for some people I'm glad you highlighted that a lot of new research is coming out of UCLA and so forth about social isolation yeah so it's I know it's that too when people when they retire right like you hear this with CEOs and executives people that retired died you know you hear that all the time so it's important aspect and I'm glad you talked about in the book and the finger study and all that kind of in closing we've covered a lot of ground max I'm grateful for this conversation Sam carotenoids meat exercise fasting me we really covered some bases what aspects of the book have we not really talked about that you want to mention for folks you know the book hasn't met a large focus on food which i think is very important and making making it really you know accessible to people by telling people what they should be eating as opposed to just kind of demonizing large categories of foods you know I dispel the myth that everything in moderation is good advice you know I think but dietary diversity as a hunter-gatherer probably a great thing dietary diversity in the modern supermarket not necessarily a great thing research out of I believe it's University of Texas Darius Moe's affair Ian to research on people and basically found that people that adhere to this everything in moderation rule by eating a greater amount of dietary diversity actually use that as an excuse typically to eat more sodas junk foods pastries confectionery products and things like that healthier people tend to eat you know a smaller amount of foods and buy them on a loop so I highlight the foods in the book that I think are you get the most bang for your buck and are also very readily accessible the other thing I talk about in the book alongside exercise which I think a lot of people are now talking about exercise is very important I talk about the the necessity of getting thermal exercise which is something that we probably evolved to really become quite familiar with and we became honed to adapt to in the East African Sun so I talked about research from Finland on sauna use they found a very robust risk reduction for Alzheimer's disease in people that used saunas four to seven times per week about a 65% risk reduction for developing Alzheimer's disease which is very robust and you know I think in the States if you were to do that study you could say well people that have sauna access also probably have fancy gym memberships right in Finland sauna Finland is the sauna capital of the world there's on average one sauna per household in Finland so it's almost as common is taking taking a shower and that's why I think that this research is very interesting it shows us that you know temperature stress thermal stress is really important and also at the other end of the thermal spectrum I detail a study in which type 2 diabetics were exposed to mild cold I think it was about 60 degrees Fahrenheit for 6 hours a day for 10 days had without changing anything else in their lifestyles had a 25% improvement in their insulin sensitivity which is in and insulin sensitivity is very correlated to bring performance and brain function and all those biomarkers that we talked about earlier amyloid aggregation things like that so aside from going to the gym and getting in your high-intensity exercise which you know I'm sure you've talked about ad nauseam thermal stress I think is also very important so allow yourself to be chilly every now and then allow yourself to experience the heat of a sauna if you're healthy and without a medical condition if you do have a medical condition go see a doctor to check you know to get the sign-off I touch on that a little bit in the book as well it's awesome yeah I mean it's just all these different structures I mean exercises the stress or some for fame like we talked about a stressor yeah thermal stress is so fascinating I found in the last like two years of doing a sauna therapy that I definitely have more Brazilians for a myriad of different things like I handle sleep deprivation better I handled fasting food deprivation like it really enhances Brazilians throughout the board and our ancestors were exposed to intermittent fluctuations in temperature like we're constantly 70 degrees were they in the subway in the work in the uber in your home yeah and it's interesting there's a correlate with with house temperature and obesity as well another study back in 2010 that's what blew my mind and that was before this brown adipose tissue research order to emerge so well glad you talked about that yeah that's awesome I gotta find that yeah I'm sure we're cool a Journal of obesity medicine from nature watcher one of nature's publications so Wow awesome so the book is jam-packed practical applications a lot of science too if people want to take that in next level which I love a lot of analogies it just really makes it easier for people to kind of grasp you know like we talked about the sticky oatmeal leaving your plate out at night in the brain so definitely check out the books guys and we have three final questions we've already asked you them once before maybe they change over time so we know you're you're doing a lot of stuff on TV you know making movies you're doing a lot of like cognitive intensive tasks we know that successful people have morning routines and rituals what do you do first thing in the morning if it's cold I go out on my Terrace to try to get you know that cold exposure very good family yeah sunlight sunlight cold exposure wakes me up yeah regardless of whether is cold out I go on my Terrace get some good light exposure I drink some water from doing a particularly low carb phase I'll put some salt in that water but then that's pretty much it I try to I wish that I was a morning meditator I'm not although I you know meditation is obviously beneficial and yeah I mean I you know in the morning I go online I try to I try to get my creative work out of the way in the morning mm-hmm before I start replying to emails and things like that is that when you did a lot of writing in the morning yeah I did a lot of writing in the morning and and also very late at night so very early in the morning or very late at night yeah in the middle of the day the anxiety of like all the other things that I need to do the left brain stuff kind of seeps in and yeah I was always hard to work the day yeah but I use that as a good time to exercise actually so over the course of reading the book I got into pretty good shape as well so that's awesome yeah yeah I found that too late or like early morning like 1:00 a.m. I know it's not a good for your circadian rhythms but it is kind of like that that first wakening that in terms of a cognitive brain state you know I did a lot of writing it at that time too I know it's not healthy you're not promoting it anyway all right so you're stranded on a desert island what nutrient herb botanical are you taken with you got vitamin D Omega threes are covered now Suzanne –then is a natural sunscreen that we consume been shown to be really good for the skin for the eyes for the brain stokes that fox o3 pathway which is associated with longevity you know in actuality I'd probably be getting a decent amount of it in my diet living on that island because it's a marine carotenoid it's found and wild salmon things like that crabs lobster but in terms of yeah protecting my skin from the rays of the Sun I mean got to get that vitamin D but also I'm fair-skinned so I don't want to end up charred you know how I probably bring my astaxanthin with me so you supplement with algae derived astaxanthin here or you just get it from food yeah I get it from the supplement that I'm using right now is bio Astin you do get it from food but I do supplements I think about 12 milligrams of it per day mm-hmm usually yeah there's a few different sources I know some is like phospholipid downd there's a Skrill I think is one yeah I don't know the source that you're talking about how it's from Hawaii apparently and I have no affiliation with the company but apparently they have a very nice farm out there the company's on new trucks I believe and yeah I've actually I'm in touch with them but I've been a customer of theirs for a long time I've been asked to xanthine is one of the first supplements that I actually really got into yeah and I just think that it's you know people that need more seafoods tend to have better health that are cognitive performance astaxanthin is found predominantly in seafood particularly wild salmon like the healthiest variants of seafood and you feel like you noticed a difference yeah I noticed it I used to get I mean I become it's hard to it's hard to say for certain but you know I used to get sunburned a lot more frequently I don't these days but I'm also be just more cautious as I've gotten older about my sun exposure and I've changed you know over the over the last ten years a lot of things about my diet and lifestyle so it's hard to say for sure whether it's has to xanthine but it makes sense to me I mean from a chemical standpoint it's able to really integrate itself in a unique way into the cell membrane which is very important for optimal cognitive function protecting the membranes from oxidative stress things like that so yeah so I'm a believer yeah and so going back to what we talked about with the LDL particles in the small dense little cars in the freeway comparing the buses yes so there's more prone to oxidation yeah asked is anthon being a fast fallible antioxidant it does help with that so that's a connecting the dots for people yeah awesome points so if you're in an elevator with a parliament member a politician you know for the u.s. senator or something you want to help them make better decisions to help their constituent you know people where they're governing what health or lifestyle tip comes to mind when thinking about like a population level policy change and you have to say I would like some regulation over what is able to be marketed as healthy I'm said I'm saying that without giving it too much thought but I do think it's kind of a crime that cereals are able to be marketed as heart-healthy yeah yeah and things like avocados are not because they have a high fat content so why is there a red heart-healthy logo on a box of cereals but not on a bottle of extra-virgin olive oil you know I just don't understand mm-hmm so I would like some kind of I'm not huge on government oversight into these things to begin with I don't think we should be getting our nutrition advice from the government but I do think it's a little sketchy that uh you know just the way things are personally marketed mm-hmm yeah industry influence maxilla career I have a gift for you oh man yeah so somebody fix their show sponsor full disclosure but whoa it's a it's a hypoallergenic mouth tape that's been studied at Harvard no have you talked about sleep earlier so I don't know if you've tried it yet mouth taping dude no but I know about it from you because I haven't seen you on Instagram tape in your mouth and I'm like what is this guy doing yeah you gotta get around on a hard core so yeah it really does work I mean you talked about those deep phases of sleep and how the brain is recycling the kaliya lymphatic system and all that stuff so this can really help not suggesting that you're a snore or a mouth-breather in any way however a lot of people that have tried to report more subjective dream recall better energy so give it a whirl I'm gonna give it a whirl yeah dude I'm excited cool yeah saw me fix so uh really appreciate you coming on the show the book comes out by the time people watch this March 20th yes and any other accompanying documentary people know about that well well later in the year people can check out the the trailer that we made it for our Kickstarter campaign at breadhead movie calm but definitely go and pick up genius foods yes available everywhere books are sold Amazon Barnes and Noble I've worked on it so hard of it the last three years and I think it's like packed with good information analogy so I'm excited that you like it that means a lot Kanye know it's awesome synthesizing all that information would take you years so for like 29 bucks or whatever the would be wherever people are in the world you're getting years of research synthesized with actual tips right at your fingertips so the value of books is amazing so definitely check it out guys really appreciate you tuning in all the way through if you like this video please hit that like button and subscribe to the channel and definitely follow max on social media has got some wonderful tips for you to help you improve your brain cognitive performance and mental clarity thanks again max thanks for having me Jess Cheers

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22 thoughts on “Fasting & Brain Health + Genius Foods w/ Max Lugavere

  1. I love how Mike is always SO present in these interviews. As a dancer, I love the body language. It just feels like the embodiment of generosity and true listening skills

  2. Been carnivore for 5 months; never felt better. Sugar cravings come and go but don’t miss fruits or veggies. Digestion is on point; brain fog cleared; sinus congestion improved- especially after removing dairy. Veggies make me bloated and gassy.

  3. Breakfast cereals and the marketing push was developed by Kellogg, then Post to promote and further the seventh Day Adventist dietary revolution for anti-meat vegan diets. Enjoy the paper trails here,, they are great reads.

  4. Effective content. Inordinate amount of goood information. One kind suggestion though: Please work on the camera. I mean you could look more into it and stuff.

  5. lots-of-conflictin-info!--I-mean-some-say-consume-protein-in-first-60-minutes-upon-wake-in-A.M-for-adrenal-fatique-i-do-like-man -in-video-say-to-avoid-carbs-in-A.M-but-after-workout-and-at-nite

  6. Can you get the same amount of benefits of greens (your large green salad) when including then in a pea protein smoothie with, collagen, matcha, almond milk, sweet potato ? Is having a glass of lemon water or apple cider vinegar upon waking a good idea, then coffee no milk, sugar coconut milk ? I know I need to get your book 🤦‍♀️ and will 👍 thanks

  7. alsheimer – 10-15 days fasting , from time to time ..I know it is working , f.e.example :Robert Tyler fasting resort in AU (from 1970s already !!!)- his father has started it . Who needs – will find it .

  8. We have stickers that say grain fed on meat in Toronto stores… if they are feeding them candy I want that warning on the label as well…skittle fed…smh

  9. Meat production is really bad for the enviroment plus the animals are usually treated very badly. Is that not important enough to even bring up? Is the only relevant factor what is good for your personal health?

  10. Hi Mike. I wanted to ask if you have ever done a video on sleep patterns. For example does it have to be 8 continuous hours or is it okay to do several short naps… side effects and benefits of either one and so forth.

  11. Great interview (as always). I really appreciate you also including time stamps and images of the research that the guest is referring too (I can only imagine the work that goes into just those two things). Some of the best and most professionally done content on YouTube.

  12. Would have been great and reliable if your sources weren’t articles published by mainstream media such as cnn.
    If it comes from mainstream media, we already know who the beneficiares are, as well as their agendas; plus cnn is worldwide known for providing and supporting information.

  13. Anyone weigh in on this:
    Around 1:16:50 He talks about Meditation being "Obviously beneficial". What comprises meditiation? Is it just sitting and thinking nothing? Thinking positive thoughts? Does this differ much from sleeping?

  14. What is the underlying agenda behind these videos that only promote more and more new age Pseudo Science industries?

  15. Mike thoughts on the finger trials verses Dr. Bredensen's work? I have Dales book great stuff…he is using his protocol to reverse already diagnosed MCI and the like. Seems to be different to what Max is talking about with finger trials?

  16. I have so many books lined up on my kindle because of Mike lol (but instead here I am- buying new books lol)

  17. Just wondering RE skittles being fed to cows… a cattle nutritionist Laura Daniels posted on fb to explain feeding sugar to cows. Max – what do you think of her explanation?

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