and minimalists hello everybody welcome to the minimalist podcast where we discuss what it means to live a meaningful life with less my name is Joshua Fields Milburn and Ryan Nicodemus is out on assignment today that assignment is vacation in Montana so I have I have two guys here with me listen last few years I've I've had quite a few health problems I'm turning 37 this week and two years ago on my birthday was sort of this this nadir of of health problems and in fact I had so many problems I had to write them down so that I could remember how many health problems I had I've got Christopher Kelly with me and dr. Tommy woods and we're gonna talk they're both from a company called nourish balanced thrive and they've helped me out immensely over the last two years with with a lot of these health problems I've had so Chris I reached out to you it was literally on my birthday when we talked about if you know this but it was my 35th birthday yeah and I'm just gonna paint the picture for everyone I I've had two mints back pain since I was a teen I broke my l5 and eventually fused to my s1 in fact whenever I get like I forgot an MRI or cat scan doctors like oh you must have had a surgery to have that fused and no they just sort of grew together and I couldn't sit down for like six months when I was a freshman in high school because of that in Ohio where I grew up we were playing ice basketball one day and someone tackled me during ice basketball and ever since then I've had some back issues and and it really it was under control throughout most of my 20s and then in my 30s it started to get more and more pronounced than the pain was really bad the beginning of 2016 January 2016 I was waking up with 10 out of 10 horrible like sciatica and just the pain was unbearable like so unbearable I was like how am I gonna get through this next second and so I started to see different doctors and I I saw a surgeon and I was two weeks out from having surgery and then but but that I found out about this type of physical therapy that I started doing it's called a gas Q therapy and I'm sure we can talk about that if necessary but that helped out a little bit with the back pain but I suspected something else was wrong like maybe there was some hormonal imbalance or or something because I wasn't sort of recovering the way that I should like I was doing two hours of physical therapy every day but it wasn't really taking like it should and on top of that when I was about age 27 I started developing these weird allergies like seasonal allergies but also chemical sensitivities to I moved into this apartment and all of a sudden it was right after my divorce and I I thought maybe I'm just depressed but I didn't really see the correlation right away I would go into a I'd go home and I start feeling these weird symptoms my throat would get sore and my eyes would get watery I started to have this really weak pathetic call just and and I thought oh maybe I'm depressed and I went to a doctor and I said oh yeah well you just your mom died your marriage and you're probably depressed right now and I went to another doctor he's like oh no no it's not depression it's asthma here's an inhaler have a good day and I saw several doctors I couldn't really figure out and then I moved and those symptoms got better all of a sudden I moved into a place that I didn't have a chemical sensitivity to and then I kind of ignored the symptoms because they weren't bad enough that I they weren't causing enough pain that I was willing to make some radical changes in my life but then around age 34 and 35 it all started to come crashing down and moved into this apartment in Montana and I was so allergic to it for lack of a better word so sensitive it had just refinished the floors they just painted the walls and I felt like I couldn't breathe in there I had to move out like emergency level couldn't couldn't stand it anymore and I started to feel helpless I started to feel this type of despair there was this sensitivity there but then I was having all these gut problems at the same time like it was hard for me to digest anything like wheat or just carbohydrates in general like anytime I would eat fiber I had the worst work kind of gas and it was it was terrible but then around the summer of 2016 I started getting like brain fog and then I got this temporary memory loss like I short-term memories were just gone and I couldn't and then I started to not be able to remember basic words like I would look at the table but I wouldn't remember that it was called a table like what's the name was Brian and this thing it was so frightening and and and then like my hormones were all out of whack like I'm in the best relationship I've ever been in Rebecca My partner is amazing she's so supportive and we're gonna actually talk a little bit about that today having supportive people when we're going through these health problems in fact she's made it so much easier for me to get through a lot of these health problems but she's been so supportive and I'm in this great relationship with a person I'm so attracted to but my libido was through the floor summer of 2016 not only was my libido through before but I I had problems with erectile dysfunction and so I'm like okay wait a minute I've got terrible back pain horrible back pain I've got brain fog I can't remember stuff I can't digest things I can't be around paint or any sort of chemicals without having all these terrible allergies I had horrible seasonal allergies and that got to a point and probably my hormones are so out of whack that I'm not even attracted to the person I'm attracted to I'm not attracted to anyone I have no desire to have sex or anything like what the hell is going on with me and then I got desperate and so where do you go and you get desperate Google and I I stumbled across this this website for this company called nourish balance thrive it was actually you did a podcast of the guy named Ben Greenfield oh yeah I didn't die I had no idea Ben Greenfield was I really I had no idea who you were but thanks to Google what connected me to the Ben green Phil podcast and then you were talking about many of the things that were going on with me and I realized like wow maybe maybe there's some sort of solution now obviously I wanted a magic pill I wanted a I wanted to call Chris up and say hey give me a prescription to fix this immediately and I remember talking to you on my 35th birthday and the thing that you said to me he said hey it's gonna be okay I I can't tell you like how relieving that was I know it was like the strangest sort of like it's weird that I needed permission for to realize like oh maybe this is going to be okay because to be honest with you that summer I really thought I was dying like I thought this was the slow descent towards death I mean when you start losing your memory hmm all of a sudden you're like oh I mean I got my will and order and I I'm I was preparing to like oh this this might be the end of it all and I talked to you on the phone and you said hey we've got a program I could try to work with you we can do some testing and we could talk about some of these problems and you started talking to me about really basic things like sleep and hormones and diet and exercise and and these were all things that I knew like fundamentally but like we started getting into the more granular things that would be more applicable for me like we all know the diet and exercise and sleep are important and I had a pretty good diet and exercise regimen and and I had what I thought was a decent sleep regimen that actually wasn't but it is now thankfully and over the last two years we have slowly worked together to try to get to the bottom of what these health problems are and the weird thing is even though it's all in one body I'm all one person I didn't realize how interconnected all of these problems are like it's almost like I treated them as if they were standing in separate corners of the room right right and so Chris when I called you and we we started talking about hey this is going to be okay what were your first thoughts when I started telling you about about some of these issues I was dealing with well the story resonated I mean this is that reason I started the business right yeah you always wonder I mean that's so that's why I did I went on to the Ben Greenfield podcast and told a story similar to yours we're thinking am I completely bonkers am I the only person this has ever happened to ya and then you know several hundred people come forward and say that's exactly what happened to me can you send me all of the things that you did I want the diet I want the tests I want the supplements I want everything you did in a package that I can buy here's my credit card number and you know but when we do that we're also sort of looking but again I I did I knew I wanted the the immediate result but I knew that that wasn't possible that was the first thing you try a about – like hey it's going to take some time there this is a process and the thing that you've known working with me last years I'm willing to do whatever telling to put in the work whatever work is required I am willing to do that because I also understand it isn't I'm not going to just like oh here I'm gonna upload this program into my brain and via osmosis all of a sudden I'm healed and I know it doesn't work that way mmhmm yeah absolutely been even extraordinary in that regard I was thinking about that earlier today that most people they have ambivalence you know when I asked you to start eating red meat because you have an iron deficiency most people they kind of squirm a bit and say you know what I really like not eating me I don't think I'm gonna do that you know but you were extraordinary and every time we came up with a record I say we it's not the Royal way so at this point it might be an idea to introduce how this program where it's not just me I didn't just show up with all this information right I'm standing on the shoulders of giants especially Tommy and so Tommy is the architect of our program and I think of myself as a builder you know I show up on site and it's not really on site it's via zoom or the telephone in this case sure and deliver somebody's information but yeah usually what happens is people have ambivalence and they don't really want to change in it it takes some time before they do start to implement some of the things that we recommend but you are extraordinary in that you just present the evidence and then the next time we talk it's it's done like okay yeah I reintroduce I had everybody yesterday it was fantastic I hadn't treated as medicine right like so so here's a weird thing when I was in my mid-20s I was a vegan for a year on a bet so I used to weigh about 80 pounds more than I weigh now and so I was just looking for ways to lose weight and I'd heard about this thing this vegan diet and I'm like oh this like it was clearly healthier than what I was eating right and so for a year Ryan and I both went on this this vegan die in the corporate world and the reason we did it is is I just told him about it one day and he's like what the hell is a vegan and I'm like don't worry about a Ryan you could never do it and that's the only thing you ever need to tell Ryan if you can't do something he's like well forget it I'm gonna go research this thing and I'm going to figure this out today he calls me up a few hours later and he's like alright I'm in and I bet you I can do it longer than you and so he actually won the bet I did it for 11 months and but then I went back and like I lost the taste for me and I went back to eating fish and I ate well for the next decade I fish once or twice a day and that called some mercury poisoning which we can talk about in a little bit that Nick's with the sort of metal in my mouth and so that was an additional health problem that I had tacked onto to everything else that we had just talked about but was so when you said we did the initial test you know like hey you're low on iron I think you should reintroduce meat and I'm like cringing because like I knew it was gross to me at the time but but also like I'm wanted to treat it as medicine so literally I remember that that first day I went over to Chipotle and I literally I was like I know I can't eat the whole portion of meat right now right and so I said just give me three little cubes of the steak and they're like well I might just give me three cubes they like I have to eat these right now and then like I'll slowly reintroduce this because it is medicine and and and no I just like a little kid I mean I've got a five-year-old she doesn't want to take her her medicine at night and so what do they do they they have some sort of sugar coating right yeah yeah and and so for me the reward was feeling better and I knew that I wouldn't feel better instantly but this was what was going to get me to go down that road and so we went through some tests we first figured out I had something called c-diff right and I've aggressive unfriendly bacteria right and everyone has CDF to it to a certain extent it's a I mean it's a bacteria but can you talk a little bit about that we might be more probably appropriate for Tommy to talk about it but I think yes you're right it's there in everybody's gut but when something goes wrong and you lose the other key players then this bad guy has the opportunity to overgrow do you think that's fair Tommy Jonah yeah that's exactly it so when people talk about what's going on in the gut and the bugs in the gut the gut microbiota whatever you want to call it there's often it's often characterized as these are good and these are bad but that's never the case in medicine or biology right sadly it's just not that simple however when you have an imbalance so you have too much of one versus and not enough and other that's usually how they come together then you're gonna you're gonna see some issues and CDF is a common one particularly now with the use of antibiotics so if you take particularly broad-spectrum antibiotics or antibiotics that target a lot of different bacteria then you sort of clean out a lot of some of what's going on in the gut and a lot most of its good and then some of these other guys can they grow to fill the niche that's been left by those other bugs you've killed with antibiotics and CDF is one particularly particularly in hospitals particularly in older people not that I'm calling you old but that's that's where we see them where we see it most frequently and it can be life-threatening and actually an overgrowth of c-diff but we see a very frequent frequently in our clients who for various reasons there's some kind of imbalance going on and then then it can cause issue so that's exactly what was happening with you yeah that's absolutely and the thing is I for the almost the previous decade so I had really bad scalp acne which is probably the best place to have acne because if you have hair it covers it up right and so I'm like uh it was actually a soy allergy I didn't know that for for many years but like if I eat some stuff like eats a piece of tofu I get a huge outbreak on my head right and so I didn't realize the time and so I went to a dermatologist and he's like yeah back trend it's the this antibody you just take it every single day it's benign I'm like the doctor said the antibiotics benign so I'm taking this antibiotic every day for nearly a decade and it totally destroyed my gut it was it was right around the it was shortly before my mother died my marriage inside these two traumatic events I also worked in retail and we were remodeling all of these stores right around the same time so I was exposed to all these crazy chemicals that were going on so I I mean I open dozens of retail stores and I was there you know with the hard hats and everything and and making sure everyone was doing their job so I was exposed to all these chemicals I'm doing this intense antibiotic treatment and plus anytime I got a cold what did I do I went and got a z-pack or whatever and they just take the antibiotics and you'll be fine I totally destroyed my guy now I write around 27 and then beyond I just started having all these gut issues which through through this testing which by the way when you first started sending me these tests it's not like it's just one test right I mean my my kitchen was just filled with piss and and I mean it was like you've got these little stool things and you're peeing on things you're spitting and vials and you're peeing on these strips but this was important in figuring out like and the interesting thing is I think out of the first six or seven tests that we did a lot of them came back sort of I'll say inconclusive like there's a whole lot to do with this here and then all of a sudden we got the six or seventh one back here like oh here's the c-diff thing and then from there you recommended doing some stuff with supplementation and with my diet that would change that and I remember talking about leaky gut as well is that something that we should talk about at this point sure all right let's do it yes important problem so it's it's actually a really interesting problem because it's not really accepted in the regular medical community and and there are a few things that sort of exists in the fringe health sphere which we occasionally inhabit but I want to be really clear that the reason I was so attracted to what you guys were talking about is it you you you may have like you dip a toe into the eastern world but only if there's like like evidence exactly it's not just like well here yeah just if first call Chris would've been like yeah just rubbed this crystal against your face three times a day like even as desperate as I was for answers I think I would have said yeah thank you very much have a nice day the next phase so you're right one of the benefits of not being in a rigid formalized medical system which we're not is that you can you can change and adapt and adopt things as they become more evidence-based and that's something you know leaky gut is certainly one of those things some people might call it intestinal permeability and there's plenty of evidence to show that people with various autoimmune diseases even metabolic diseases type 2 diabetes if you take a piece of their guts and you look at it there's for want of a better word there's holes in it there's meant to be connections between the cells and the guts that stop things that you don't want coming across coming across and there are many things that can can affect that and it can be foods you're intolerant to it could be certain toxic things that you're exposed to one thing that c-diff does is it makes a toxin which breaks down or you know causes some of those junctions to be broken down so that results in a leaky gut or some degree of intestinal permeability and then what happens is either things that new parts of the bacteria so bacteria they're there they do good stuff for us but they do also contain some things that can be toxic those have easier access to your body other things that you're eating that maybe you don't want to get into your bloodstream until you've fully digested them they're getting across early that can also cause issues so whatever the initial cause is and there can be many then all of a sudden you have this whole host of symptoms and this is one of those things where you're talking about how the whole body is connected and often it's at least part of that is connected through the guts as something that we see certainly very frequently in our in our clients the people that we work with and this is one of the downsides of the way modern medicine is structured which is that everybody separated by a body part right so you have a neurologist who only looks at your brain and you have a hepatologist or who only looks at your liver and you know you have an ophthalmologist so let me look at your eyes except for the fact that all of these things are connected by a blood stream and all these other things that are happening in the body at the same time the hormone signaling covers the whole body so when we sort of separate our body parts we don't look at the big picture as often I think that's where that's where we hopefully can can start to piece things together and and often as was the case with you it sort of can stem with some kind of large exposure or something that's going on inside inside the guts well I think that that's one of the big problems because when I went to doctors and they said here's an inhaler or you're just depressed and let me prescribe some nor dil or something and I I'm against sort of antidepressants unless I think they're absolutely necessary I think we suffer from a lot of sadness and we often categorized it as depression and we try to just give someone the medicine when there's a whole bunch of other like sort of real medicine that will will work better like exercise in sunlight and water right people use try these things as well but I remember going to a GI doctor who's like just the because my in my early 30s as my gut problems got worse I'm like having a GI doctor and he's like yeah it just takes a Metamucil for the rest of your life and you'll be fine and I mean that's the other main reason I started the business was as an engineer I recognized that there was absolutely zero attempts to see what was going wrong there was no root cause analysis like it's obviously a complex system and I can see that you've spent exactly zero minutes trying to figure out what's causing this problem so for the example of your scalp acne they didn't spend a lot of time trying to investigate whether or not was a food sensitivity that was causing that problem I'm just gonna jump straight to a solution I just happened to have right here in my desk drawer yeah right and of course this does doesn't work it doesn't work in health it doesn't work anywhere else either so for example when I'm riding a bicycle and I get a flat tire if I just shove another tube in there and pump it up the chances are it's going to go flat again because the thorn is still stuck in the or whatever punctured the tube is still there you have to find out why the tire went flat before you put a new tube in and for some reason in medicine they don't do that they just jumped straight to the to the solution which in my opinion doesn't work right right and and because often the solution is is figuring out what the problem actually is right and and and for me it was okay I'm having these gut problems but it's not just like all of a sudden your guts gone bad it's that there's something that's underlying it and one was like hey no more antibiotics unless absolutely necessary and don't get me wrong I'm not an anti I'm not an anti antibiotic guy what's it aunt antibiotic a biotic guy but I'm I'm all for them when appropriate right it's just we've been using them inappropriately in fact one of the words I use when people we talk about minimalism and that word scares people then I say okay just use the word appropriate like maybe it's appropriate ISM like because what's appropriate for your life may not be appropriate for mine with respect to the material possessions that we own and by the way when I first found minimalism I was 28 years old and I'll be 37 this week so almost a decade later what was appropriate then is it appropriate now I've got a five-year-old daughter like my life is different and it's it's true with each of our our our diets and our health I think there are some overarching principles that make a lot of sense but then what really helped me is when we chatted you got down to the granular level and we said okay here are some tests that are appropriate and we'll try these in fact you even waited on the heavy metals test because when I had this this leaky guy you like I can't even we can't even address heavy metals until we address the leaky gut thing so why was that yes and we've seen a lot of people get worse I mean Tommy you might be able to talk to some of the more specific technical details but if you've got increased intestinal permeability aka leaky gut and also heavy metal toxicity and you try and pull those metals out of where they're safely in storage then the gut is an important part of that detoxification process and we've definitely I've known several people that have gotten much worse you know you go to another problem medicine is that people tend to specialize and then wood whatever problem you go to them with oh this is definitely heavy metal problem I've seen this thousands of times for it's a heavy metal we're just going to go straight into IV chelation therapy and it's going to fix you because every problem is a heavy-metal problem it's like you give a man once did the back surgery I was two weeks away from that and of course I went to a surgeon he recommended surgery right he didn't recommend chakra alignment right surprise surprise yeah and the sad thing is and he was a great guy in fact I really liked him but but he all he had to do is recommend this thing called a gas Q therapy there at least tried this alley there there's some sort of physical therapy that you can do for me it was a it's a I still do it I did it this morning I do for 45 minutes every every single day because I have that messed up vertebrae and there was like 25 of gas Q clinics across the country I've seen other people there I don't get any endorsement from them whatsoever just like you guys I pay you guys a fee every month I'm that there's no no one pays me to to talk about these things but these are things that have really helped me and and the the the physical therapy was something that wasn't free but it's damn near free and I don't have it's not invasive at all in fact it makes me stronger as well you know it's it's strengthened the the muscles that were otherwise neglected for most of my life because I spent 8 to 12 hours a day seated at a desk just typing away right and it made me realize that the lifestyle that I was leading was ostensibly healthy but but it wasn't it certainly wasn't optimized for health and just because it wasn't unhealthy doesn't mean that it was also healthy and and I think that's that's kind of where we are right now we're becoming more and more aware of health like no one thinks it's a good idea to smoke anymore even people who are smoking every day don't think it's a good idea and I don't think it's not a problem but but there's also the the sitting every day the excess amount of sugars refined refined carbs that we're eating like all this garbage that we're putting into our bodies the the seating the lack of the seated miss the lack of sleep we're experiencing all of these sort of low level amounts of unhealth for lack of a better term and what happens is you turn 35 like I did and it is all culminated at this right a life that I thought was relatively healthy all of a sudden came cascading down yeah did you get a glimpse of your mortality as well that was the one thing that motivated me you realized that it's quite stoic isn't it remember you will die yeah like you kind of like I'm not getting any younger and this is not going any better and I say I joke that I don't want to work with anyone that's younger than 35 because I feel like you have to have that glimpse of your mortality before your you'll do all the things that we asked you to do what is this weird thing where I was at somewhat at peace with that but I also knew I didn't want to die and if I was going to die I didn't want to be in pain and suffering in the process right and by the way like I shouldn't be thinking about this at 35 of oh crap I really feel like this is it this is the path I'm going down and it's terrifying to me let's fix it and if if I don't want to go down that path and I'm willing to do anything to change that now I really think that's that's the inside if I could give that to anyone who's listening to this is you have to be willing to actually make the change yeah it's important to work with people who are experts and not find the crystal healer who is going to sell you a bunch of lies but find people who are going to be your advocates and be supportive of you in that process so you all work with with a lot of people many of whom are athletes but a bunch of different folks and it seems to me that you found some significant commonalities and are the commonalities and symptoms or problems or one of the one of a lot of the commonalities you deal with now so I think where we started is is with Chris who had his his issues as as an athlete particularly and then all all the things that you described so issues with gut health erectile dysfunction well always associated brain fog and then so I think initially the business was founded on people in so endurance athletes with those kinds of symptoms and actually you find that if you're if you train the way you're told to train for endurance events so this could be mountain biking or cycling or triathlon which is basically quite attritional it's go out and crush yourself as hard as you can as often as you can every day and then in order to recover from that you just have to eat a whole load of refined carbohydrates Gatorade cereal pasta bread make sugar packs yeah cycle is used to be a dealer of that stuff I had the wholesale account and I had my bike team and I was the dealer you know I was the one that put in the group order and then everybody got the wholesale price that used to get back from every bike ride with this sticky ball of these wrappers of this stuff and I'd use one of those every 40 minutes and I absolutely had to have it else I'd start to have some sort of hypoglycemic episode or what I felt like one you know II like dizzy and really hungry ya know it's ugly yeah and when you do and when you do that so there are some people who thrive in that environment and they do great and you know that's fine but it's a small percentage of the population and everybody else ends up broken in some way or another so I think that that's sort of been a core of our of our clientele often endurance athletes lots of triathletes some runners but then as the more we talk about this and the more we look into you know hormones and the guts so we have a lot of people who have got issues that's just what we talk about a lot and that's who we seem to attract in terms of in terms of the people that work with us know when you say talk about you guys have a podcast nourish balance thrive podcast well we'll put a link to that Sean podcast Sean if you put that the show notes as well but what the thing I like about is you touch on these different topics so I don't have to listen to every episode but there are ones that like it's always download each one and then it's in my feed and I'm like oh hey I really want to hear that one or oh that one's intrigued you know I never even thought about that and so you have these these topics where I can dive a little bit deeper and I feel like I get more than I would for out of a TED talk but I also don't feel like I don't have to read a medical textbook in order to understand it so thank you for your podcast I appreciate that well sometimes you have to read a medical textbook if I get if I get really into it then then sometimes they'll make people's eyes go crossed but I try not to do that too frequently but yes so so basically now where we're at is we work with anybody who has a performance goal and you might think of performance in terms of athletics I want to run under three hours in a marathon right that would be an athletic performance goal but for some people it might be I have a five-year-old daughter I want to be able to play with her yeah I want to have the energy to to spend time with my kids or I want to actually be able to function at my desk for my job that could be a performance goal so because I came to you and I wasn't an athlete at all I was wondering like I wonder if these guys would even talk to me right and and I realized that the yes performance can mean athletic performance but it could just mean like getting better so you can be your best self right it's just a function the optimizing for it could be anything yeah yeah and so the hormone thing was something that was important because my hormones were all out of whack I had my I remember my human growth hormone was relatively low at the time and I think that's why a lot of the I was doing physical therapy every day but it wasn't really sticking because like I wasn't building up the the musculature and when we started fixing some of the gut stuff and and through supplementation I feel like eventually it all started clicking and and and that that back pain and went from a 10 to a 7 when I started doing physical therapy is now at roughly a 1 or 0 most days this amazing it's it's essentially gone and I'm stronger than I ever was and it's really simple sort of stuff but I don't think that would have happened had my hormones stayed out of whack the whole time and then of course my libido was through the floor and now Bex has to fight me off every day it's I mean it that I can tell you the the the true is sort of test here that there isn't I mean we can do the blood tests or whatever like that stuff's great we were just talking about this last week I think the true test is is how you feel you need these these markers to help understand there's nothing was radically wrong with you but but for me it's like my sex drive is through the roof I feel way better than I did two years ago I feel like I feel like you know to use a sports analogy I started off with sort of the one-yard line and I was getting ready to get sacked for a safety like like it was not going to be good I don't know if this translates I don't have any cricket analogies I'm sorry Joe you played for five days and there's the draw the same analogy so I felt like I was at the one-yard line and and and the thing I want to stress is I'm not a hundred percent there I feel like I'm 80 yards down the field which is a significant improvement from where I was two years ago and if you were to go back to my my 35 year old self and say hey if you put in an immense amount of work you're gonna get eighty percent better over the next two years I'm gonna said hell yes yes like whatever I can do to get there also realizing I'm still headed in the right direction and the changes from here are gonna be especially incremental because to get that last 20% is I figuring out what is this sort of edge case is one of the slight tweaks that I need to make because I've made all the dramatic tweaks and I've made a bunch of other small tweaks along the way as well and so I still feel like I'm you know 80% of the way there I still have some chemical sensitivities they're considerably less than than what they were but I was at podcast Shawn's new apartment yesterday and he just had a remodel and I walked in there within half an hour I started getting a little sore throat and little runny nose and I'm like okay like III realize I still have some chemical sensitivities right and I still have some tiredness that that I will experience especially in the afternoons even though I have a relatively low carbohydrate diet and like I'm eating you know three bowls of rice for lunch and then crashing like III do get more tired than say my 31 year old self did and I bring my 31 year old self oh because that to me that felt like the sort of peak health for me even though there was a lot of stuff going starting to go wrong it's what felt like the most sort of I was the most physically fit but also like maybe most mentally sharp as well and I feel him getting really close to that and what's exciting to me is to get back to that and then surpass it I feel like I can do that I feel like I'm maybe a year or two years away from really surpassing that and by the time I hit age 4 I'll be sharper and fitter than I was at 30 and certainly then I was at 25 because I was fat and unhealthy at 25 I was working 80 hours a week and sleeping literally three or four hours a night every night and I didn't realize how unsustainable that was one of the things that you did help me adjust quite a bit was my my sleep and I had built up this weird pattern that was starting I thought to work for me I would sleep three hours a night two nights in a row and I would sleep nine hours on the third night I don't know why that worked for me at the time but eventually it stopped working and I realized that there was just a lot of small adjustments that I needed to make with screens and getting sunlight in the morning can we talk about some of those basic things that will help help out with sleep quite a bit yeah and why why is sleep so important and why did we neglect it so much yeah I mean I I can talk about some of the practical concerns because I'm definitely living it but Tommy's the neuroscientist but actually should talk about why sleep is so important and well there's both sides of that are very important but in terms of the practicality and then the science but the so essentially sleep is the only time that you have for a lot of the tissues in the body to repair and that goes from the brain all the way out to the skin so there's even some really interesting data on how light at the wrong time on on the skin at nights when the skin is supposed to preparing itself that sort of predisposes you to things like skin cancers so even like sleep and darkness at the right time a lot you know that's when the body repairs itself essentially that's when the brain flushes out all the stuff that's been accumulating during the day as you've been thinking and doing whatever it is that you do during the day and in terms of the the light exposure there's two important parts to it so there's sunlight during the day and which helps time everything that happens in the body happens on us what we call a circadian rhythm so the jury circa dere means roughly a day so happens at a specific time during the day and there are hundreds of genes and proteins and things that your body makes in different amounts depending on the time of day and the way that your body knows what time of day it is is it should be sunlight bright light during the day and you know right now we're inside this is this would be nowhere near enough lights to set a circadian rhythm even though it's it feels bright to us compared to what you get from sunlight it's really it's really nothing it's a fraction and then at night you need darkness because that tells your body that it's nighttime but you produce of a hormone called melatonin which some people may have taken to try and help them sleep because they spend their evenings staring a screen which suppresses their body making melatonin so blue and green lights particularly in the bright LEDs that we get on screens phones and computer screens and reel and televisions everything that you know is really good at suppressing our melatonin production and melatonin so it times the clock it sets our metabolism but it also has some you know antioxidant effects anti-cancer effects they're using it in studies to try and repair injured brains as part of cancer therapy so melatonin has all these amazing effects yet we're suppressing it by watching all these screens at night and you know so the two ways to prevent that is to make sure we get Sun during the day which again sort of helps prime us to make melatonin a night and then also just avoid those bright bright lights at night yeah yeah I've added a few things and you and I talked about this a little bit like a sleep mask and and some earplugs and and just some some really basic things but it had more to do with I think the the practice of getting sunlight as soon as it's available I tend to still wake up I'm just an early bird Soleil I still wake up before the Sun goes up and so I got this thing called a human charger and I don't know what the science is behind it you've sent me a few a few studies on it but what are your thoughts on on sort of art the artificial light from that so I think that that can help its if nothing else it certainly gives me the placebo we you know we're big fans of the placebo if you can get a placebo from something that has literally zero downsides you know that's great if it makes you feel better than that and it's not displacing something better but it's really good for jet lag in particular so if you're trying to time your circadian rhythm to something that you're about to go to or somewhere where you've just arrived you know part of jetlag is the fact that your body has no idea what time of day it is right and so then the light and the day and darkness at night is a big part of that so the human charge has some great evidence for that but then for the same reason if you're not going to be exposed to bright light then making sure that your body is getting some of those cues at the right time even if it's not from sunlight I think can't kind of have a big benefit so it makes sense yeah and I was living in Montana at the time too so like all winter it's dark and cloudy and and the Sun of them come up until I swear it's what does a show like 10:00 a.m. or something crazy it it's still bright out there right compared to what the the light level of light that you experience indoors truth get light meter Oh summer sunrise wasn't until like 10:00 a.m. and I think yeah I would get up at like like 4 or 5 oh wow okay and so even between you know I'd have five hours between sunrise even though it was cloudy yes so you would still have brightness but it was diffused through many many yeah yeah I mean it's it's Canada basically and and so I mean we're in California now so I have a lot more Sun and I can tell you there's been a marked difference in my mood and Becks I mean I for whatever reason I'm one of those people who is ultra sensitive to light so I I walk every day I probably walk about eight miles a day and doing so on the Sun like there is this marked difference and in my overall mood and happiness and one of the things you and I talked about is sometimes it's just about changing your environment and that might mean changing the geography altogether I know you when you move do you kind of moved out into the middle of nowhere just I mean part of that had to do with cycling I assume but the other parts why why the change in geography for you and how does that translate to other people well actually the main reason was to be closer to my wife's family we had a baby and you know it's really how I mean this is another thing I mean all of these things they revolve around this principle of ancestral health like how can we recreate the lifestyle of the hunter-gatherer that lived 10,000 years ago as best we can because they seem to have been the best humans that ever lived in you know so being part of that strong sociability or lying science yeah exactly yeah I mean that's one of the storm an arguments against the Paleo diet is you know like these caricatures of like reenacting being a caveman right it's not a reenactment it's just like what what's the best we can do given what's available what's appropriate is a very good word and yes so that was partly to be closer to my wife's family but yeah I must admit it's very nice I live in Bonnie Doon which is just outside Santa Cruz and I get tons of sunshine there's Bonnie Doon manzanita trees and redwood trees and were five minutes from the ocean and it's beautiful and I'm you know very grateful for the amount of time that I can spend outdoors in nature in the sunshine and I think my health is benefited from it greatly yeah and here's the weird thing I remember when both of you recommended this like I just finished a tour and you're like okay I think you should take a month I live in the woods now see you are a traffic exactly what triathletes do pride themselves in to the floor oh yeah it's a it's a different type of performance but yeah we did you know a 50 city tour and afterward you were like hey I think that you should go live in the woods from what but for me that sounds like hell like I grew up really poor and so I don't want to recreate that with camping we were I mean our electricity got turned off all the time sometimes the water would stop running that's because we didn't pay the bill and so for me like I actually I think going camping would really stress me out and then we had this conversation about this and you're like okay well what would be the ideal sort of relaxing environment for me it's like it's coming to LA and just walking around the city for a while and and I think partner has to do with like the psychology of the individual because yes I I and I've by the way I've lived in the middle of no we when we first moved to Montana we moved to this cabin in the middle of nowhere to write a book we're there for four months side of a mountain Montana winter and the only thing you can do is write because it's negative 26 degrees when you wake up in the morning and and there's nothing else to do with your time right and so I would basically just write and so I understand the sort of Dinah of isolation but but for me what was best for my psychology was finding the right place yeah you were with your people here I can see yeah yeah and it was finding your own tribe and and I think that's gonna be different for everyone in fact I think the first seven or eight times I came to Los Angeles I didn't find the right people and and there's a certain stigma to Los Angeles and yeah if you're looking for that side of things the self-absorbed you egomaniac sand narcissus you're gonna find that but guess why you'll probably find that in Dayton Ohio too if you're looking for it but if you fought and there's 20 million people in Southern California if you can't find the right people then well I don't exactly so I can tell you there's it has been a marked difference in changing of geography for me but I wanted to get into some some questions we have from our audience so we usually do some voicemails but today I wanted to go through my story instead of going through the voicemails but I do have some questions I reached out to our audience on social media we usually call this the the lightning round but cuz Ryan and I usually answer these questions was a short shareable less than 140 character response well we're not gonna do that today beside I don't like Twitter you can you can monitor on a bit and then maybe if we have something really pissy that is shareable what will will write it down in the show notes or something for those you want to share it we're on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter at the minimalist by the way I wrote this down I want to get to it I said a social media us I wanted to get like from from a health perspective because I I've found it to be both wildly helpful and wildly intrusive simultaneously now we started using social media radically differently this year we wrote this whole sort of mini manifesto of how we're going to use because I thought what we were doing up until this year is we weren't being very intentional about how we were using social media was like oh I'll post a picture on Instagram and then repost it on Twitter and then re reposted on Facebook and it was like those those carbon copies where he's put sign something in triplicate I'm like this is literally the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over that why am I doing this say why am I not using these these platforms more intentionally so we started using the platform's a lot more intentionally Instagram is really good for sharing beautiful photos and Facebook was really good for sharing links so that interesting and informative articles and Twitter is good for sharing words and so that's how we started using these and we provided these sort of creative limitations that have helped us use them better but but the question for me is still like how useful is it a friend of mine is a guy named Cal Newport you guys familiar with him he wrote a book called so good they can't ignore you also another one called deep work yeah that's the one oh yeah I definitely got that name I haven't read it yeah and he has a great TED talk called quit social media okay and he's a professor at Georgetown we had him on the podcast at a live event we did in Washington DC and the the thing that he talks about is the how social media for most people is a net negative and for me I think right now it is a net positive but I don't know whether or not I'm just tricking myself so I'd love to know what you guys think about it from from a health perspective I think there's there's two parts to it so like we mentioned earlier nothing is good and bad right there's there's everything is shades of grey right at least 50 of them sorry but so on the good side is is part of the kind of stuff that we do so say if you have or you know in that world say you have a specific health problem or you have a specific thing you're trying to do be it a specific diet or yet some problem you're trying to solve you can find a group of people who have the same issues have done it before have loads of advice can be supportive because you might not be able to get that same support and knowledge from your local community right it might just be you there just aren't that many people around you who have this specific autoimmune condition or who want to try a paleo or Keith's genic diet or go vegan right you might not have that tribe so you can get access to that tribe and it can be very rewarding and very supportive so that's one positive on the other side particularly with younger people we see more and more that social media use is connected to mental health problems and it makes perfect sense because a it's replacing real human connection which is incredibly important you're spending time with your family and your friends in you know in real life outdoors doing something you know doing something beneficial to yourself or you know somebody else and it Apes the form of connection without really providing that yes you know you think you're connected I have a thousand friends look how connected I am they're not connections they like if you needed help from these people how many of them are going to give it if you needed true support how many of them are going to gonna give it and it's very small fraction and so you and what at the same time you're constantly comparing yourself right so I was reading the other day about how you know this is a good point where when you were at school right so maybe school sucked and you were bullied and but then 3:30 you go home and you don't have to think about those kids until the next morning now they're on Facebook they're on Twitter you see them 24 hours a day like cannot you just cannot escape the bullying yeah yeah they exactly that you cannot escape being bullied and it just is continuous and at the same time you see these other people who are in your class and yeah they have all this stuff and you know they they look happy all the time and you know you're just it's a constant set up for you to think of yourself as a failure and that kind of spiral downward so can be beneficial can be negative and the science that's coming out now just starting I think because we've only just had sort of the tip of the iceberg of the social media boon and then the downstream effects but you know overall again particularly for young people really seems to be having a net negative effect yeah and and I don't know what the answer is yet I mean I can say use it more deliberately I don't know what the broader answer is but I think the the individual answer is assessing what our needs are and and then what is appropriate for me and then also building up these either disciplines but also maybe self-imposed constraints so we were talking about the constraints earlier but I don't have social media on my phone and it's not because I believe that Instagram is inherently evil it's because I don't trust myself with layi well as soon as I'm in line at Chipotle it's the first thing I will do is like just pull out my phone and and I'll be one of the other 15 people who's staring at the the screen sort of mindlessly and not getting the value from that that I would buy maybe just pausing and thinking or maybe open up my Kindle app and reading a book there are alternatives that are our better alternatives and without completely leaving it behind and and being a total Luddite I don't think that's what any of us are prescribing either but but I think it's about finding the the discipline to use these things responsibly in a way that that allows us to get value from it and and not just pretend we're getting value from it not just to pacify ourselves with it talk about the cognitive middle gear Tommy that's a very interesting thing yes so this is something that I guess I learned about from a friend of mine James Hewitt who works for a company that I help can consult with they work both with corporate clients and they also do a lot of the coaching for Formula One drivers that's kind of their blue ribbond I guess a business and he has talked a lot about yeah there's something called the cognitive middle gear so if you imagine you have three gears and it's the same for sports so so that's something that a lot of our clients understand is you can do like the long slow aerobic maybe you go for a brisk walk or a jog you can do that for maybe hours at a time if you just sort of keep going it's nice and legible you're not really punishing the body then you have the high gear which is like sprinting and you just go and you're very intentional and you work very hard for a short period of time and then there's the middle gear which is actually where most athletes to talk to train and actually it's what really does in the most harm is basically just crushing yourself for long periods of time like 30 minutes or an hour that's how people think they should train right they go sprint is a 10 out of 10 the middle gear is as I say or 1/8 exactly do for half an hour I know you're not sprinting right yeah all right and and people do that they're lighting bolt yeah like three people in the world well actually he just sprints for 15 seconds then he's some chicken nuggets but or 10.59 seconds anyway but so people when they think that they're gonna train what they're gonna do is they're gonna go out and it's gonna run as hard as I can for an hour and that's like absolutely the worst way to train but it's also the worst way to use your brain so if you have the cognitive load gear so that's exactly like sitting and thinking you know contemplating just letting your mind wander you know that's when you get your best ideas but we don't really let ourselves do that and then there's the high gear which is wearing can I stop you on that for a second because I don't know if I wrote yeah I did write this down an attention span man like we talked about sharpness a moment ago right and I feel less sharp than I did at age 31 still I feel leaps and bounds I'd like infinitely better than I was two years ago when I first made that phone call it to you but I don't feel as sharp as I did it at thirty-one but I feel like I'm getting close to that but maybe one of the problems I listen to too many podcasts oh you so this is and I I'm certainly guilty of that too you know I have a free moment what can I do in this free moment I can you know a podcast is the perfect way I can put more information into my brain which is definitely probably not what I need definitely probably not what I need right now and so what what you should be doing again is long periods of that you know low gear where the mind is just allowed to you know be getting bored allows you to come up with all kinds of great ideas we just don't that doesn't happen anymore but when you want to achieve something you do this high gear hi folks intention or no distractions you get stuff done but what we spend most of our time doing is we spend time in the middle gear which is I'm working on this project away I'm gonna check my email oh look Facebook I just got a notification on my phone and you'll constantly be my bother there's constant stuff coming in but you're never actually intentionally doing something it's just let this continuous load of information that you cannot actually have a process that's the Congress in middle gear and that's what we spend most of our time doing continuously task switching and never focusing on one thing and then giving up that opportunity to say you stood in line waiting for coffee or something well that's an opportunity to be in the very lowest gear yeah but people don't do that anymore they're gonna oh I'm gonna go into the middle gear and I'm just gonna scroll through a newsfeed right now right well in a while the TV is on in fact did you guys have received Back to the Future Part two classes there's a so it takes place in far in the future in 2015 and so this is a like mid-80s right so it's like 30 years in the future and so it's 2015 and there is the scene oh my god it obviously they never get the future sort of technology right and so they just sort of iterate on what they ever the existing technology is so there's still fax machines and televisions but he's watching television in his voice commanded so it's like this sort of serial EXA equivalent and he turns it on he has six six channels playing at once on the same TV and that seems to be the perfect metaphor for what we're doing now we're listening to a podcast while on Twitter watching the television and the radios playing at the same time it's six different channels but they're just coming from these different sources and you're right if there's a free moment I will put on a podcast and man I mean there is some days because I'm extremely introverted so I spend most of my time alone but am I really spending my time alone yeah and and and so I may not be around other people where it's it's it's it's not a two-way communication right but it's sort of this the seeping in I remember David Foster Wallace my favorite writer he he the reason he said he didn't have internet at home is he said if if I can get out they can get in and he didn't mean it in some like government conspiracy way he meant like they can get in like and I'm my god you guys are blowing on mine right now because when I was 31 I did these series of weird experiments because I don't think minimalism is about deprivation but sometimes I'll temporarily deprive myself of something to see whether or not it's truly adding value to my life so what I'm thinking about right now is let's get rid of podcast for the next week well how is that going going to mine yeah yeah yeah our mind merge balance thrive in the minimalism that it and no actually we actively encourage people to unsubscribe and unfollow us on social media it's this ongoing thing we're like if we're not adding value see like please don't feel compelled to do it um but yeah if you do feel compelled ania feel free to subscribe until you stop getting value from it that's okay too and and and what I'm thinking though is when I was 31 I moved I was trying to get out of debt so I moved into this really small apartment Dayton Ohio second most affordable city in the country and I was five hundred dollar apartment in a very nice neighborhood in Dayton and I moved in there and I it was like during the weekend so I didn't have internet that weekend can't come Monday I'm gonna ready to call the internet company I'm like huh maybe I can go without a home internet for a month just to test it out see what happens right no internet at home now keep in mind I also make a living online but I'm like I'll try it out for a month and a month went by and it was the most productive month I've ever had because a month earlier I had a couple months earlier I guess I went when I moved out my marriage ended I just never gotten another TV I didn't bring a TV back into my life and I was completely fine with that I rediscovered these things called books and they're amazing and and then I move and I didn't have internet and then a couple months later I said okay I'm gonna go without my phone for 60 days and the first thing you learn is there aren't very many pay phones anymore but also you learn the special kind of loneliness because you come home and all the pacifiers are gone my TV isn't there my internet isn't there so I can't check the likes and the tweets and the and the news and then my phone isn't there oh my god what am I going to do with my time well I guess I'll read our alright I'll create something and it was it was truly the most productive time in my life we wrote drafts for all four of our books I'm not well I have one novel and then three books that Ryan and I wrote together during this period of time going without internet and it started with that phone then she brought the phone back into my life but you it in a much more deliberate way like to actually make phone calls I mean it's a weird thing we call it a phone but it's basically a pocket computer right and it's a distraction machine and I'm what I'm realizing right now is wow I am distracted in ways that that crept back into my life and it's making me start to to reevaluate some of those distractions so so that's interesting tinnitus that you said earlier my attention isn't as good as it was when I was 31 and then you said when I was 31 I didn't have internet and all of a sudden the pieces thoughts a sort of fall into place exactly yeah and it's hard to sometimes find these correlations so you step back and and have these these conversations I think that's why these these kinds of conversations so important I love I do spend about 90% of my time alone but it makes another 10 to 20 percent of the time where I'm with people it makes these conference I have these kinds of conversations all the time I feel like I wish I'd brought a microphone with me all the time because the conversations I tend to have are more meaningful as a result we can start you know and I'm happy to scrutinize my own life all the time and say hey I'm far from perfect let let me figure out what's wrong so I can improve on it incrementally and see it sample that you're setting for your kid as well is something I think about a lot now if you don't want your kids to spend all of their time scrolling through a newsfeed then why are you teaching them to do it by doing that yourself right you lead by example yeah well there's one thing I've been doing recently that has house helped me out a lot I wrote an essay about this Sean I put a link to it in the show notes it has to do with you know if if you and I are sitting at a table for dinner right all three of us are just seated at the table having dinner and I get a phone call and it's an iPhone chol I have to take right now I'm going to say excuse me while I take this phone call I'm gonna step outside I'll be over here over here somewhere right but but but we don't do the same thing for text messages we just break out the phone oh yeah yeah go ahead and keep talking to me uh-huh I'm just that's fine yeah and for those of you watching this on the video podcast you can see I'm just I just pull my phone out and and you guys and I'm like fake nodding or huh and so what I started doing that like there are times where I absolutely have to like write something down or something's gonna break me away from the conversation and if I know that it's essential what I'll say is hey please excuse me for a minute while I take this message and I and it makes me realize like okay am I actually gonna excuse myself from the table to do this I'll do this at home now too so be me and backs and ll we're eating dinner together I say hey can you excuse me for a second I really need to send a message right now while I'm remembering it or can you excuse me for a second I really need to go write something down so I can remember it later and that way I can be fully engaged in this conversation and people were really understanding when you do that because it's it's almost weird to them right because we become so accustomed to having these barriers in front of us I'm just holding this machine between us and we've created these metaphorical but also literal barriers in our everyday conversations and talk about I mean the attention span now the the study I read recently and maybe you have more information about this 8 to 59 seconds the average American attention span so I don't know how they measure that but I I know that that even me I'm someone who can get pretty obsessive and deeply focused on things I have OCD like legitimately will get super obsessed I'm more obsessive than I am compulsive but I will I will have tunnel vision whereas Ryan if you were here today you know he's like a butterfly and then I'm OCD he's a DD is the inside joke and it makes for this interesting dynamic but but even with me I've noticed this sort of this cultural a dee dee has infected me as well right because it's become commonplace and it's almost like I've just followed suit and it makes reading books harder it makes it makes doing the the prolong the deep work as Cal Newport which I strongly recommend that book if you haven't checked it out it's it'll make you just sort of requestion everything that it doesn't have to do with like really hunkering down and creating the optimal space for doing the best work and work that you can be proud of you know I look back at all the deep work I've done from years past and those are the things I'll look back on and say oh those are like their assets in a way like I wrote that book or we made this film and it was yeah of work but it was a lot of really focused work and there was super attention paid to that not perfection but putting your best foot forward and getting into that creative state and really doing it so there's something to be said for that and and our attention is slowly eroding but I don't think it has to yeah I wonder how much of it is has a biological underpinning right is is are we just seeing on social media you know the shorter and shorter videos it used to be three minutes wasn't it was the the average YouTube clip and now like you say it's like down to less than a minute now yeah yeah well in there was vine remember vine form there was a second video yeah and and that that I mean all the vine is gone is essentially the same thing with Instagram and all these other platforms that that are like give me in and by the way it's all done so that advertisers advertisers can aggregate more eyeballs onto their product or service right and so give me 15 seconds of your attention right now right as if it's them but is it the most important thing in the moment usually not I just want I mean so it's probably some sort of loop here right where the the short videos are creating its short attention span but I wonder how much of it other problems like people are not well slept they're not in a strong social support group they're eating crappy food they're not moving and they don't get any sunshine and therefore all they're capable of is 12 seconds of attention or whatever is right so whether you know how much of it has a biological underpinning is my question yeah yeah and lead it's this downward spiral right that you don't even notice that you're falling as well because yeah that's one of the symptoms of just follow the incentives right that probably got some metric on the back end there they're doing they call it a multi-armed bandit you know it's like a randomized control trial with 800 different arms they're like oh this is a 1 right let's go do that you know that they're just following what works well I've got some questions here from from our audience I figure we dive into some of those Natalie is asking is there a link between excess material possessions and an increase in mental health issues and so I tweeted something about this not that long ago and so if we were to get a lightning round answer my pity answer would be excess is a sign of instability and I had someone say well [Applause] as if I meant mental instability actually I didn't I think there are a bunch of other if we having excess means often we're in stable and a whole bunch of areas of our life it could be relationships it could be health instability it could be creative instability career instability financial instability and we try to compensate we try to fill a void by by having the material things and and you probably know about the chimp studies where the the if you if you give a chimpanzee a banana they eat the banana if you give them enough bananas for them to eat and share with the people are the people the chimps around them that will share if you give them a hoard of bananas they will fight other chimps to the death to protect their hoard which is just going to rot they're not going to be able to eat all these bananas and I'm wondering quite often do we do the same thing that we have this sort of irrational desire to to consume yeah we were before that we were talking about Chris Thalia referring to consumerism is sort of the people being barracudas like being attracted the next shiny object but do you think there's any tie to sort of this desire to increase our status or material wealth with mental health issues yeah I think it's difficult to figure out what's what's chicken-and-egg but you know you say instability else to think of uncertainty so being anytime you're uncertain of anything you will sort of hold on to anything which may give you some uncertainty view some certainty or you know you're uncertain about whether you'll need that in the future so I'm just gonna have it anyway just in case right dangerous but there's where I was going with that is somewhere that I can't remember now so so so I actually wrote this down here you've got that this is according to the Happy Planet Index the two least happy countries in the world are Chad and Luxembourg so for two utterly different reasons I'm assuming right chad is like talk about true instability or true uncertainty there's a threat of violence in every moment of every day asleep or awake if you're living in Chad Luxembourg is probably I think the richest per capita country in in the world you paid the most for the least amount of work I just read though this weekend's well there you go and we're talking so there you can have yes with a certain level of uncertainty you're going to feel instability and that's probably going to lead to some sort of mental health problems as well especially a dissatisfaction in life no question about that in fact when you look at and a lot of these depression surveys sadness surveys least happy country surveys the war-torn countries tend to be at the bottom of us at least happy places right but then they're also like these weird anomalies like Luxembourg or the United States where people have by and large material wealth relative to places like chat or Rwanda but the the amount of dissatisfaction I think a lot of has to do with with being comparing ourselves to each other the competitive nature of consumerism in a way yeah that's the thing I was going to mention was that there are so many things that we do with our environments that creates the physiology of uncertainty so if if it's the the diet that you're eating increases some kind of systemic inflammation we know that that's in certain subsets of depression you know inflammation is directly linked so if the dyers inflammatory that's going to cause or can cause in susceptible people depression that makes you feel uncertain so could that then you know then in order to get some of those beneficial feelings you know retail therapy could could be one of those I was gonna say so that's been in my past as well when I was feeling at my worse at a desk a hedge fund with plenty of disposable income but being like death know girlfriend's brain fog I would self soothe with a lot of things including retail therapy was very easy to go onto the internet and research a new product and then buy it from and some types of stuff would turn up and I wouldn't even remember why I ordered you know like even though it's been two days researching it before I bought it and there's a certain amount of dread you see the black show up and you're like what did I do you know like have this really sheepish relationship with the person that took the deliveries that the hedge funds you know he's like home now I guess I did do that or something else but I self soothed with a lot of things I self soothe with sugar and the internet and bike racing and all kinds of things our sister you know your there's something wrong with you and how do we stop there oh stop yourself soothing what are the steps it's like any problem like I said it you have to find out what's causing the problem in the first place if you want to solve any problem you have to know what caused it I can't think of many examples we just punish yourself because you like to do retail therapy figure out what it is that makes you feel the way that there needs you to do that is it sunlight deficiency it could be a sunlight deficiency or it could be a social connection deficiency which is and so that was that was another thing that creates uncertainty is that we are wired to feel the same to be part of the tribe and when you're continuously exposing yourself so social media is a perfect example to all these other people who look better or they're different at least you know that unites me alright it's not necessarily reflective of what's really going on but you don't hire you don't feel part of the group you don't feel like you're the same as anybody else and feeling different again that drives physiological changes again in the brain in our immune system that then has those same downstream effects so it could be so many different things in the environment that make you feel different or make you feel uncertain and then that can can drive whatever then that the behavior is being shopping or boy Simon has this really interesting technique that I think's worse imagining Simon is are whose only theme of the year so we're very very lucky and I've added some quite brilliant people over the last few years and Simon is one of them he's a professor of public health and a performance psychologist he works with the World Tour cycling team team BMC and with some of the athletes that he works with he has them break that horrible constant comparison thing on social media by having people reach out to the person you know so you've seen this highlights we love somebody else's life oh this woman is the best cyclist that ever lived she has the nicest cleanest bikes her family are so perfect I bet she gets eight and a half hours of sleep every night she has the most perfect diet no reach out to that woman connect with her go for a bike ride with her and the chances are she's going to tell you know you're in my life is just as much of a disaster as yours this is the only thing I post on social media the highlights real yeah and it just breaks that illusion immediately and suddenly you get it so I know that's the technique that he uses with the people he works with and what people might find helpful yeah I think realizing that what we see on TV and then online is a is a construct and I think there's nothing wrong with putting your best foot forward I think quite often we want to do that like I want this to be a good podcast episode I want to put my best foot forward here but but also realizing that that's what other people are doing is they're putting their best foot forward it's not the total picture right if you pose for a picture you go to Sears and they get the portraits there I they don't to say you know give me an ugly face or scowl they say smile right and so just realize that that's what people are doing they're posing for a picture and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong and these these are his words as well actually I should make clear is that there's nothing wrong with comparison per se like that's how humans make meaning of something right if you just found out I know maybe play some game and you get a score you don't know what that score means until you compare it to somebody else's score and so that's how humans find meaning in anything so there's nothing wrong with comparison per se like you're going to compare yourself with somebody else on the on the Internet while you're doing that all the time that's how we find meaning in things especially things with a number associated with or does it go wrong okay comparing with someone's highlights really all the time right this is my VR I just PR this deadlift and I'm gonna put on Instagram now just getting started and you can barely lift the bar in fact you're not even sure your form is right and you're worried about throwing your back out here's this picture of this super muscled guy lifting 500 pounds or something and doing it flawlessly sure that's there this is what makes me so mad about help like health coaches performance coaches even doctors who feel the need to post naked or topless selfies on social media when like literally that has never helped anybody ever I'm fairly certain it's not entirely inspired it's not totally inspiring and like that's certainly something that many people in our company could do but it literally benefits nobody like we have everybody has a different history everybody has a different starting point you know there's absolutely nothing about the person looking at that that's the same as what you were at whatever given point that allows them to then use you as inspiration because everything's different so all it does is you want for failure I just I mean the people who do that even those who are ostensibly you know helping others with their health that just makes me really mad other thing that's completely unnecessary yeah yeah I think about my partner backs I mean she has just phenomenal genetics on top of having her she's a dietitian so she she's really helped me out we partnering with you all going through all these health problems like just having her there to be really supportive but also understanding and she understands about nutrition really well but she also has really great genetics and and I can't plan to have a six-pack abs like her even though you know it that's just obviously the lifestyle that she that she lives and leads lends itself to that but also a lot of is she was born with that and she unless she were really screw it up she's going to look great on her own right and and I think what you're talking about is you you you have some you know person who's posting the shirtless picture and and either a they're on you're just dramatic amounts of steroids and that's never part of the the diet plan that's an exercise plan that's recommended and it's a misrepresentation I think about um we're gonna really go on on this tour a three-city tour I've learned my lesson on a 50 city tour two old three days it's perfect that's right so it's it's called the simply southern tour we're talking about money and minimalism and you minimalized you're told a that's right and we're doing the South Dave Ramsey I don't know if y'all are familiar with with Dave but he's got a big radio show and we're going out with his team let's just talk about money and minimalism but his daughter is doing our Nashville event with us in July and she has a book called live your life not theirs and I'm sorry I should called love your life not theirs and I think that that's that's really what you're trying to convey here is you can look at someone else's life and you can say oh that's an interesting ingredient I never thought about incorporating that into my life that could make my life better potentially and bring that into your life but it's really about creating your own recipe and loving your life not not their life and I think that's the one thing with social media where I'm endlessly scrolling and I'm like a zombie lost in the glowing screen that's when it becomes problematic let's see we've got a question here from Joshua we'll hook Joshua asks what's the best way to support someone dealing with a serious health problem for example cancer or MS or Lyme disease my pithy answer here is the road the support is paved with understanding and I'll just expand on that a little bit I when Beck's and I first started dating was sort of at the beginning of where my health was really starting to decline and and she was like I mean she was weary for sure like what is going on I really care about you I love you but I'm really worried about you too but she never she worked really hard to understand what was going on and throughout all the difficult moments she didn't baby me or there was no sort of infantile treatment of my symptoms or whatever but she worked really hard to understand what was going on so that she could try to sympathize with with what I was going through so for you all what what are some of the best ways if if Joshua will hook here is dealing with a friend or a loved one who has cancer or MS or Lyme disease well how what he can what can he do to best support that person well I think a big part of it is understanding what the person is going through on a technical basis if that person is spending a good amount of their time on the internet researching their condition the chances are they're learning some useful information and that we get that all the time with people we work with they come to us and they perhaps know more about their situation than we do which is a really interesting thing and I think you know supporting someone like that it that might be a helpful thing to do to kind of match them with that level of understanding of the specific condition so that you can have a meaningful conversation with them and be on the same page as exactly placating them with niceties yeah you actually don't start talking to you and you won't understand what the hell they're talking about and so it's very difficult to have a conversation and of course you but the person who's ill will immediately pick up on that like what's the point of talking to you you don't even understand what I'm going through you know so yeah I think that might be an important thing I think being being an ally in whatever it is that they're trying to do is very important so if to say all the conditions that were mentioned you could try certain lifestyle factors be they dietary or environmental and you know it as much as you can doing that with them I think is super important because the number of times you see one person and a family decides the certain way and then the rest of the family just continues to eat the way that they were eating before and all of a sudden you've just isolated this person and then you know if they're dealing with a serious condition at the same time plus they're being isolated have to do everything else differently I think that's you know it's very difficult to then balance out the pros of what they're trying to do versus the cons are then you know being isolated from other members of the family so if everything can be done as a team I think that's going to make a big difference and then you know something that we maybe don't do enough of is whenever somebody's really struggling to deal with something and they tell you about it you know there's people kind of split into two groups but but half say if it's 50% of people will try and offer solutions so if something's really struggling with something be it who's to say as a disease and this sort of up there just need to offload that talk about it and then they don't necessarily need solutions from you they just need to know that you're there for them so you just need to say man that really sucks I'm sorry and so rather than try it's such a problem I have is and I know I've gotten way better and especially my current relationship but I'm a problem solver yeah and so I just want to show up and say well here's the seven steps to fix exactly and index like hey shut the up and listen to me I just want you to listen and I think that that is so key like sometimes it's just listening and and not just nodding your head along say uh-huh but like but but but trying to understand what they're going through just by listening and if they if they really want some solution they lost Joshua look also asked how can we take responsibility for our health but not obsess about it and and my short answer to this is obsession is helpful until it's no longer useful like sometimes I actually think obsession can be kidding can for me I got really when we first saw talking I got really obsessed with okay I need to fix this right but there's a certain level of obsession that is endless rumination that doesn't do anybody any good it's just me being neurotic about about it the same thought over and over again right you just get around in circles exactly and so so there was a level of obsession that allowed me to get really deep and get committed to fixing this I think but but but there comes a time where it's like okay I know what I need to do now I can give myself permission to to stop obsessing over it or this this endless worry you know get if you give up worry there's nothing to worry about it would be another pithy answer for you what do you guys think about that personally I found habits incredibly useful there's a really good book by Charles Duhigg that Simon often recommends to our clients on why habits are important how you form them and then you don't you just don't think I do stuff without thinking about it like if someone was to observe me from the outside during my day they were like that's weird like why is he doing that why is he doing that why is eating this like why did he go to bed so early why did you have dinner at 4 o'clock in the afternoon those are not conscious decisions that my family is making every day all those things are now on autopilot right so the the premise of the book is or you probably remember a time when you reverse your car out the driveway and it took an awful lot of the prefrontal cortex right you're using higher-order reasoning to understand how to get this thing out into the road and then you know the tenth time you do it's on autopilot and you can have your kid in the back talking to you and listen to the radio whilst reversing the current and so the same is true of anything you can put these things onto a habit so they're basically on autopilot you know every time I boil the kettle I do 10 press ups and it's just something that happens automatically I'm not depleting willpower in order to make that happen so your habits to me of a really useful the way that I approach I guess is probably similar to one of your pithy like your pithy response and which is that I think you should fix the things that you can fix or that you're willing to fix and then don't worry about it so for instance one thing that I've done recently is our bought reverse osmosis water filter for my house because I'm fairly concerned about some of the things that end up in the municipal water supply okay and I am willing to buy water filters so that most of the water that I drink is filtered the other water the I drink out in the world don't worry about it I have literally no control over that I'm done I've done that eighty percent or more I know that's gonna have a net benefit the other stuff just don't worry about it and I think you can apply that to pretty much everything be it your food or you know other aspects of your environment you know fix what you can fix and what's easy and what it you're willing to fix and then beyond that I really you know it's definitely not worth worrying about it and worrying about it it's gonna is actually gonna be is actually gonna be detrimental yasiel serenity prayer I grew up Catholic and they want mommy stories you know a rosary beads out and praying they give me the courage to change the things like can change yeah the same thing and that is filtered water by the way it's not under our control anymore is is Wi-Fi right so we we work with a lot of people that are worried about that but there's not a great deal that you can do if you live in LA for example in London you know you put on your phone and there's like 25 Wi-Fi networks so even if you could turn it off you can move up to your house baby yeah you can we did my Wi-Fi signal is the only signal but then you might create social isolation problem like which is the worst thing but yeah understanding what's under your control I think is very important Ruffalo asks how can I safely recover from burnout my pithy answer is extinguish the fire before rebuilding your home III think that's one thing that that I did struggle with when you and I first talked was like I didn't feel like I was burnt out even though maybe I was to a certain degree because I you know was just I was moving from inertia right and so like I was still continuing oh well yeah of course we've got another 50 city tour it's not a problem and then I realized pretty quickly like oh hey if I really want to get this out of control I I do need to put out the fire before I start rebuilding there's this home right there's a line from our book everything that remains it's actually in the documentary there's a scene I'm out in the the salt flats I'm reading from it my marriage ends my mom dies and in the line from the book is even while Rome is burning there's some how time for shopping at IKEA and that that was the thing light and I have nothing against like he is completely fine if you want you know cheap breakable furniture but the the the the the problem with IKEA wasn't IKEA the problem was me it was like there's all the house is still burning and I'm trying to rebuild it as as you know I'm not dealing with the actual problem I'm covering out by buying the nice accoutrements that are gonna make my new space look you know a hospitable I guess so how do you all when you talk to folks about burnout what do you talk about I mean you often hear this term adrenal fatigue which i think is overused and and I think there is a such thing as adrenal fatigue but but I think we often use it as we use it just explain exhaustion and can maybe differentiate yet so adrenal fatigue is a it's a very well it's now the artist formerly known as adrenal fatigue yeah say that we don't we don't say that anyway we call it hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysfunction which is a lot more of a mouthful but it's interesting because the the original thought process which came largely from work by hans selye a who was a physiologist who essentially they say would have won a nobel prize if he hadn't come up with this idea but it basically eventually you know so if you're stressed you make cortisol as your stress hormone and then eventually you get to a point where you make so much cortisol that your adrenals get 40 and they stop being able to make good soul and I've heard people refer this as hypercortisolism yes so there is a thing there are there is a thing called hypercortisolism in in like there is something which is very dangerous called out of Addison's disease where basically or adrenal your adrenal glands for various potential reasons just stop make cortisol at all and that you know can lead to death very quickly but you know when you look at in reality like your your adrenals could still make cortisol if they were given the right inputs right it's not that they just don't work anymore it's for some reason your body has decided that making more or less calls so isn't a good idea and that's there's many different inputs in that system that was a problem I have when we do the first test my cortisol levels were low cortisol is a real thing and it does make people feel bad but there's nothing wrong with your adrenal our fatigue they may have you know they may have hiked also they may have local so they may we there are lots of different tests you can do we try and stimulate the adrenal glands to make cortisol and people who have fatigue some of them are high some of them alone you know it you cannot just say it's adrenal fatigue it may you know in some cases there may be local cell being produced but again you have to work your way back it's not just because they're tired there's some kind of reason why why that why that's happening mmm okay so if if someone's dealing with burnout what what do you recommend to them I mean it's my default answer isn't it you have to understand what caused the burn out in the first place don't you yeah yeah I think you know complete so complete taking a step back what we like to do is is look inside so we do do a fair amount of testing we've actually reduced the amount of testing that we do up front because so much of the the stuff that benefits people is the lifestyle interventions you know we talk about diet and sleep and you know so stress is super important like where are your stresses coming from you know many people their stressor may be that cognitive middle load like they're just 12 hours a day at work just continuously never processing anything properly but it's just like stuff is coming in continuously that's a stressor on the body so figuring out where you know what the issue is and then also figuring out what it is that you can actually stop doing what you don't need to do or what you can change and actually for you know a lot of us feel like all the stuff that we do is super essential but in reality that's that's not really true and I'm sure it's the case for everybody in this room even though we feel like we're maybe good at handling our priorities you know there's always gonna be stuff that there's gonna be a drain that you don't really need to do so so I'm like like you've both said it since you find out what the main issues are and you can't you can't rebuild while it's still on fire right you need to step back you know fix everything and allow yourself that time so people often get stressed about oh my god I'd my work you know this is caused by work but I have work and you know otherwise it can't pay the bills and so then more stresses creep in when you're trying to fix things because you know the things that you're trying to fix are the things that you need to do so you know giving yourself permission and time to do some of that is super important I wrote an essay recently called essential non-essential and junk and it started with like talking about the material things in our life the average average American household has 300 thousand items in it that's according to LA Times and and I think when we look at that stuff we we tend to think it's all essential or at least like it's gonna add some value to my life you've not now some day and some far-off non-existent hypothetical future I'll somehow magically started getting value from that just the things yeah yeah the thing that's in my attic it will all of a sudden like seep into my house and start adding value but I think the truth is there are some things that are truly essential and most of us have the same baseline essentials the the specifics vary but housing and clothing and food and and the hygiene products like there are certain things that that we can say all right these are what we perceive to be essentials and they'll change from person to person somewhat but there are true essential items then there are these non essentials the things that truly add value to our lives like we have these microphones right now I could live without these microphones but it's gonna be a lot harder for us to make a high quality podcast without them right this but there are non essentials to me and I have to recognize that but they add value to my life the third and I think most of the things that we own should should fit in that non-essential category we bring them in deliberately because we know they're gonna serve some sort of purpose so that bring us joy in some way and the third category is the junk the things that we pretend that value but they don't actually add value or how things are holding on to just in case or the things I multiple stores I don't want to deal with it right now or whatever it might be and I think the same is what you were just saying holds true for the the stuff that we're dealing with the stressors in our life right there are some essential stressors and that maybe we have to keep those around but then what are the things that are non-essential that we can remove for a temporary period of time and then once we're recovering we can maybe bring them back in individually slowly and then what's the junk that we never have to want to bring back into our lives ever again you gossip is one I think about you know that that is there was an evolutionary imperative for gossip it probably helped us evolve to to where we are today but it doesn't mean it's necessary in my life anymore and so I've completely removed that from my life because I don't I I don't get any value from whatsoever that's a stressor that is no longer there anymore jealousy is something that yeah we probably evolved to need a jealousy over a period of time but it's not something that I find to be a particularly useful emotion now and so I've decided why don't I just consider that junk get rid of it and I think that that helps me deal with with some of the burnout but I think I'm gonna go back and sort of reassess like what are the things that are stressing me out one of the one of those stressors are junk and how can i how can I get rid of those Jason asks why do we seem to have more health problems than ever before is it pesticides hormones antibiotics sugar something else yes yes it's got to say it's a lot of those it's probably a hundred more things that we've known no one can measure or the Rhian measuring or that we don't know about you mentioned inflammation earlier yeah and I know that I had in fact I'm still doing the curcumin supplements and we're gonna I think we have a question here about supplements somewhere and we'll deal with that but inflammation is something that we hear about but it's something that we haven't talked a whole lot of Bell as a culture until recently but now we're hearing more and more about it so can we talk about what we mean we hear this this sort of catch-all term of inflammation so it's basically your body responding to some to something and usually and traditionally it's a good thing right so if you get a cut in your foot that area becomes inflamed and that's your immune system responding making sure it cleans out any junk that may have gotten in and then starts to you know initiate that the the process of repair and you know a lot of the you know there are some very smart people who say that we shouldn't you know be against him from you know everybody's like it talks about information being a bad thing and it's it's usually not it's it's the the process is beneficial however in the setting of a continuous stressor which produces continuous inflammation then we know that that's when you start to see issues and it can be you know pretty much anywhere like we've talked about the fact that it can affect the brain you know spots in the body where you have continuous information so you know might then cause a cancer because it's like a continuous repair process can you know cells continuously being damaged and having to be repaired that can be a trigger for something like a cancerous growth so it's it's any response of the body to something which it perceives to be foreign and it could be bacterial or something else and it's usually a good thing but when you don't remove what's causing it then it can cause issues and it seems that we were highly inflamed these days I know I was and and taking some of these supplements actually helped it was the first things that that I had taken that by the way you all had me on a supplement regimen that was terrifying but it was extremely helpful in fact things got worse before they got better at some points especially with once we fix the gut thing and then we went to the mercury stuff so we did the heavy metals tests I had really high levels of mercury really high levels of strontium because it was in a damn supplement that I was taking and I had decently high levels of arsenic and I think cadmium and and and and and so in dealing with that we did this whole chelation therapy and was a bunch of supplements there was one point I was taking 112 pills a day and which was a lot of fun like just yeah but I mean like I said you know I was well I was laser focused and I think there was maybe one day where I missed one of my three rounds this is why we recommended the football protocol that we would not suggest this to submit most people and you know so most of this is with the intention of you get to the point where you don't need any supplements right that's yeah yeah and so right now I'm taking fewer supplements than I had in the last two years but they're still you know it's a multivitamin and human stuff that I take but but for the most part I'm not taking the the whole litany of yeah you stuff pockets full of pills but there was a period where I actually I got I was getting worse because that chelation the therapy I mean and you can talk about the the science behind it but you can't go in your body and say okay body please remove the mercury but I'd like to keep the zinc and the selenium and all the good stuff you could just leave that and there that'd be great and so I think my immune system was pretty radically compromised last winter I had a tour stopped in Washington DC and I couldn't leave my hotel room in fact I was gonna go to hospital I was to felt too ill to leave my hotel room well I ended up having hand foot and mouth disease which is what usually four-year-olds have and my four-year-old had it and I caught it because I think my immune system was relatively compromised at the time and I basically spent all winter last winter relatively sick dealing and I think a lot of it had to do with my immune system was pretty affected by the this chelation therapy and we did the 10-day fast and that I only lasted six days in one hour on but there were a lot of things that that that I did that actually you know it was getting worse expelling the the toxins for and I know that has become a whoo-whoo word and we don't mean it in any sort of woowoo way but there was a lot of getting worse before before getting better and I think I think inflammation was a big part of that but then it was also this these these toxins they were my body can we talk a little bit about toxins so the analogy that islets use for that kind of process is if you looked at heart surgery right in the middle it would look like murder towards the end it looks a lot better right once you've been sewn back up so that that does tend to happen sometimes and you're right so detoxing and toxins are the super nonspecific thing that it's kind of iro I'm gonna do a detox which doesn't really mean anything however you have people drinking like juices with 50 grams of sugar and sale detail detoxing yeah it doesn't make any sense but but there are you know if you find something specific and you know you can't estimate for many of them and we have various ways to do that and you have some good data on how you might be able to reduce the body's burden of that which we also have good data on then in a very targeted specific way you can do that and mercury is one of the things so the strontium unfortunately we we don't know how to get that out and that's just that's in your bones until they turn over in about seven years time I think Christmas the other day so not much I mean this is important right you should talk about how the strontium ended up in to supplement in the first place yes I shouldn't be there anymore this is a strata this is a supplement for bone strength and so I remember I when I was working in hospital in London for elderly patients with osteoporosis some of them would get I would prescribe strontium and strontium basically goes into the bones you know where you'd have calcium and what it does is it makes the bones look really good on a bone scan but absolutely does nothing for their strength so we kind of feel better because they look better but actually it doesn't really really help you at all in terms of the strength of the perceiver well you get the the ostensible result that's measurable but it's not actually doing something yeah so this is actually you know it goes back to what you're talking about right at the beginning which is the importance of the subjective experience so we can talk all day about test results but what you really want is to wake up with a boner right that's like that's the Holy Grail in like no matter what the test results say if that's happened then you know there's there's a big win there so so that's the strontium but with with the the mercury there's some we know that basically there's no amount of mercury that's okay basically you can get effects at any level and the amount that it affects a given person you know depends on a whole number of things but we also know that there's where the exposures are it can be so exposures from fish is a big one although some of the benefits of fish seems to negate some of the negative side effects of the mercury so that's kinda like a 50-50 that's do the selenium content the air selenium content of the fish it helps produce glutathione which is one of the main antioxidants that we use to buffer various toxins and so that you know overall this there's definitely a net benefit of seafood even if it does have some mercury in it but then it matters the type of fish as well so Joshy was eating some big fish right yeah yeah I mean I was you know I think the quantity is well I mean once or twice a day every single day I was tuna or mahi-mahi sashimi twice a day that's gonna be bad yeah yeah I mean or even canned tuna like it was all I mean and so I had to do with the quantity but but also then I had these metal Malcolm's my mouth which I had taken out I sent you my dentist information because I know that like that's one thing that I wanted to be really careful because and we did three different mercury tests because I did after the the we did the whole sort of cleanse the the chelation therapy and all the supplements and my mercury was an acceptable well to name it was amazed at how well that was absolutely worked he had all these powders and all this crazy stuff but it all it all worked this magic potion I think it was very highly scientific it with at least one reference yeah there was there was nothing magic about it but and then I knew I wanted to get the metals on I mean a they're ugly but but I didn't care as much about that but I wanted to make sure there's someone who was gonna do it where it didn't leach back into my body that's right that was the primary concern and so we did a third test and then the mercury was even lower after that and I've even reintroduced some fish back into my diet not twice a day but maybe twice a month where where I felt good enough that I feel like I bring that back in now and so having those removed and then having removed it from my body and now just consuming a responsible amount an appropriate amount of fish is right it seems to be what what was I mean it was a long road to fix it but I'm glad we did all right I'm gonna take steps to not go back down that path you see how important is to understand what's causing the problem if you've gone to some of the IV chelation therapists they said oh yeah no problem I can get that mercury out no problem at all but if you haven't stopped eating pilot whale and you see mouth full of mercury amalgams there what's gonna stop that problem from coming right back 6x later yeah yeah and so I immediately had those taken out right after we did the second test and then we did the follow-up test a few months later and make sure everything was was gone and and the levels were great yeah so so thank you Perry Scott I still have a mouth full of metal amalgams because I find the idea of going paying I mean how much do you pay to have your mercury amalgams for me I mean it was hundreds of dollars but oh yeah yeah I wasn't gonna tell me ten thousand no no no no no was not even a thousand dollars oh really okay so notice less right now but yeah I mean so I've still got a mouth full of mercury and you've got one little one yeah I got when I was a med students I couldn't afford the fancy fish that's a perfect metaphors like if we don't pay for something now we end up paying for it fold in the future and not not just monetarily but worrying about it and like the roasting over the thing and so it's best to take care of it now let's see we got some more questions here Shane asks I'm trying to figure out how to deal with chronic fatigue syndrome okay well we just talked about fatigue and maybe I could've asked this question about myself too so he said I've read it involves gut health but a discussion would be great so chronic fatigue syndrome we were kind of talking about that with adrenal fatigue here and it seems to be the same thing but via a different name I mean we we have these names in fact I think when he actually submitted this question he you sever all their acronyms that I just edited out that but the essay might cool at myalgic encephalomyelitis which is Emmy it's also the same thing first okay yeah so with me I the one thing I do notice now is that I am I tend to sleep I sleep about eight sometimes nine hours a night now which is the first time I've ever done that I go to bed really early like Ella will be in bed by 8:00 and I like to go to bed around 8:00 if possible because I say yeah I still like to get up early right and so it doesn't always work out that way but I do i do get minimum seven hours a night unless I I can't help it like this morning is a good example so the last four nights in a row I've got this this tracker ring so it tells me how shitty my sleep is on nights like last night but the last four nights I had nine hours every single night which is great I would wake up really refreshing this morning I woke up before and I knew I just knew that this is it like I am wide awake and I can lay in bed for the next three hours but it's not going to get out I'm not gonna like like magically go go back to sleep so might as well get up and and get some writing done and so there are times where I can fall asleep like that I don't have a problem with insomnia necessarily but I the days like today I know I will be really tired midday and I'll end up taking a nap but there are some days even when I get nine hours of sleep where I'm like I'm still tired where do I go from here like if I'm tired midday I mean yeah maybe a nap is the answer yeah it's I mean naps can be fabulous things and definitely take advantage of them if you can but the so going back to the the chronic fatigue piece it used to be this thing where you'd be tested for all this stuff and then be like well we don't know what it is but you're tired so we'll call it chronic fatigue and now there's there's been some fairly interesting research at least that that basically brings it all back to the function of the mitochondria so that the mitochondria are these organelles inside your cells that basically in the simplest form they make all of your energy right and if the thing that makes your energy doesn't make energy very well then you don't have very much energy that's kind of simple it's mentioned a lot of other really interesting things start in the mitochondria like hormone production yeah he in production right for hemoglobin to transport oxygen so no mitochondria and your proper yeah so if you want it so if you want to make quarters or any of your hormones the first step happens and it happens in the mitochondria so basically you know so much stuff so much stuff happens there and then what is it that makes you a mitochondria function less well and it could be any kind of so it could be in the gut because then like we talked about whether things are coming across that you don't want to come across or you know there's some infection in there that's causing issues you know some kind of systemic infection or again chronic inflammation so some response to something that we are not getting rid of the source that can affect mitochondrial function certain toxins can affect mitochondrial nutrient deficiency nutrient deficiency is going to fight mitochondrial dysfunction so since oh yes yeah rock the statins are among toxin so I guess that there's two parts the first part is if you're trying to deal with chronic fatigue syndrome try as best as you can to figure out what it is that caused it and it could be dietary environmental pharmaceutical and then the next step is when you're when you're starting to recover it's always important to balance your efforts so what's very common in in patients with chronic fatigue is they feel great on one day like I feel great today I'm gonna go for a run and then they overdo it and then they crash and then they have then they're fatigued for days on an end and until they start to feel better again and then when they feel better then they do loads so so the the important thing is to do pretty much if you can make yourself do the same amount every day to regardless of what it is be that exercise or activities day of daily living or work so that on the days where things feel a bit harder you make sure you're still doing the same amount on the days when you feel really great just enjoy the fact you feel great but don't overdo it because then you cause those cycles in fact Chris early on you you told me like because I'm not especially active I'm certainly not an athlete but during these times of of trying to get better you rely I think you need to exercise a little bit less which was a weird thing to hear right because we've it's it's sleep it's diet and it's exercise and you're like I think maybe you need to eat a little bit more am i wait a minute what's going on and so I started tracking my calories and realized we actually realized I didn't have to eat anymore because I was getting a substantial enough amount of calories and a really healthy you know fat a lot of fats in my diet so I had a decent number of calories but the exercise I didn't feel like I was like I wasn't out running marathons I don't run at all but but you know just simple stuff especially while I was recovering you're like it's too many pull-ups you're doing everyday or you're doing way too many push-ups everyday and let's scale that back a little bit but the consistency is also the key where it's like there will be days like today we're on like I'm tired screw it I won't do I won't do the the you know I'll wait till the day where I'm feeling better and then I'll just double off on everything right so that that is key I'll have to make sure that I've I'm still relatively consistent but but more consistent and also dialing back on days where you I don't have to go balls to the wall every I don't have more in the tank like I did what I normally do and I could have done so much more but I didn't need to because I know I'm gonna do some tomorrow yeah that's important that's great that's great alright let's see what else we got here shame that's your question Dina says what's the safest way to detox from heavy metals on your own my response to my pithy answer was even LeBron James can't win alone this was proven recently and as he was swept in the finals can win even with teammates pretty much long but uh but I think you need I mean you could reach out to the nourish balance thrive guys and and they can help point you in the right direction or find someone locally who's who's gonna help you through this but I think doing it alone is probably and that's yeah it's got it stuff you don't have to work with us but I would recommend finding a coach or a clinician to help you I mean there's so many things that I don't know anything like me just said a bunch of words I don't understand if I was like had to understand that tomorrow then I probably go and find someone that understood it and have them help me rather than trying to figure out the hard way by myself and run basketball I was it's that sport Oliver on yeah I'm so bad with American sports you know where sport is where it's but yeah so I would find someone to help you you're right but having said that the closest we've got is Brian Walsh is a naturopathic doctor for Maryland that we've worked with quite closely he's another one of the the shoulders that we've been standing on over the past few years and he does a fantastic job of teaching both biochemistry and physiology and he has a detox course that's incredibly evidence-based so that's available as a training course if you go to if you just google his net oh no don't go to metabolic fitness procom I'll put a length on the show notes to show forward slash detox I think it is and then there's a he has two courses one for clinicians and one for patients and you can't it's not easy to do without a coach because it's just I mean as you know it's incredibly involved it involves sauna time restricted feeding okay all right yes all right so so sauna it's something I do pretty regularly yeah unless I have some sort of cold I'm skiing over a cold from this past weekend but I'm all fine today so don't don't worry but um I I the sauna was one thing that that you recommended early on and I really started that that was one thing one of the benefit also I've been doing cold plunge or a cold shower but but there's a nice place here there's a cold plunge so how cool I do that so you know I I can talk a little bit about heat shock proteins or cold shock proteins but but beyond that I I start to get lost really quickly so what are the benefits I for in terms of detox and I also think it's that one of the things that really helped with my back considerably yeah so Stefan Janice not genius generous doctor genius has some really useful resources online he's from where's he from he's from Canada isn't he yeah and he's published a number of studies that show that metals are preferentially excreted in sweat salsa some metals preferentially excreted in sweat cadmium is that I think is the the main one mercury some too but so there's two parts there's some things that are that you excrete mainly through sweat and it's very rare that people who aren't exercising heavily nowadays sweat a lot because your inside air conditioning all that kind of stuff people don't like to sweat so that's that's definitely one benefit there's some things you're going to get out the some sort of what we call them persistent organic pollutants they're basically you know some some synthetic compounds that only come out through sweat so that's that's one benefit particularly in in the in a hot so there are two types of sauna there's the infrared sauna which is basically red light they're less hot but they they make you sweat a lot but they don't make yeah but they don't sort of cause this heat stress whereas if you look at the sort of the hot Sun it's like a Scandinavian dry sauna so it's really hot that also has a number of cardiovascular benefits so a lot of studies done in in Finland basically show that the more often you sauna like a dose-response you know the lower risk you look your risk of heart disease stroke type to die by to diabetes there's even been studies done on heating people up actually in a hot bath rather than a sauna but people with type 2 diabetes in their blood sugar regulation improved so there's kind of both the detox benefits which you could get from either type of sauna and then there's the sort of the metabolic health benefits which we think are probably going to come more from that kind of heat stress so so at least two times a week usually three or four times a week I try to do 25 minutes and a 200 degree sauna and and then do a cold plunge or a cold shower afterward and I can tell you that the first time I went like you're right I I wasn't used to sweating and in fact and I don't I didn't like just sweat normally like I'm not I don't have overly active sweat glands I took Ryan the cryotherapy a few weeks ago he was sweating in the cryo chamber II just like just sweating like I don't get that way right but when the first time I went I was in the sauna is 200 degrees I've been there for five minutes nothing 10 minutes nothing 12 minutes I give this one little runnel of sweat on my forehead and then all of a sudden it starts coming and and I realize like oh I haven't I haven't actually sweated in the last decade uh-huh it's been a decade since I've had a place play basketball in high school and stuff but and I sweat all the time then but I'd had the corporate life and then I would sweat occasionally but not a real like heavy sweat and I swear to you it was like I was sweating chalk dust or something we're like yeah and and the stuff that was coming out of my pores and now I do it every day not every day but every week and and it's just become a regular routine and it's a habitual now and the benefits from that are that yeah I feel that that my back and my muscles are a lot better but I'm certain that the one of the biggest things for the whole detox that I did I had to do with with the savasana heavy Solano protocol yeah so yeah I would say don't go at it alone Dena can I just add that the mayor is the one that you've got access to yes in a lot like oh is infrared better than dry heat I don't care who knows better than you you've kind of I mean so this is a very Brian thing as well like I'm not gonna even answer that question you've missed the point like the point is to sweat I don't really care how you do it right right and then if you have access to both and congratulations pick one that you that you'll do the most often and go with that all right Joanne says what are your thoughts on it on the low carb and ketogenic and whole 30 diets my wife's name a whole thirty right now she's on Facebook in a support group so what does the most thirty diet approach that was the first thing that I did to hold thirty is a version of what we might call a paleo template so it's this idea of trying to recreate a diet that was eaten 10,000 years ago when we were hunter-gatherers and before farming and grains and all of that right and it focuses on micronutrient so every time you put something into your mouth like I was with a friend of the day and they were spoon feeding a baby just boiled pasta and I and the thing that made me cringe the most was not the gluten it was just a missed opportunity for micro nutrition right now he talks about how a simple nutrient deficiency can cause mitochondrial dysfunction well you're just putting empty carbs into your mouth with is literally zero micro niche unless the flour was fortified which I guess they're obliged to do by law right so that's interesting the gluten thing like we've demonized gluten and I think it's probably good but not for the right where we were not we're not demonizing for the right reasons that the the real reason to demonize is like we're missing out on all these nutrients because we're just stuffing our face with these sort of empty calories and empty carbs right right yes it's a whole thirty is focus on minimally processed micro nutrient dense foods you remove sugar so for many people myself included when I first came to this I was utterly hooked on sugar yeah and couldn't really go more than about an hour without eating and so remove ripping that band-aid off quickly and removing all the sugar can be really helpful for people and your headaches and stuff at first yeah I was just really hungry it was like the main food for so and then it completely preoccupies you can't think about anything but but you think I mean I don't think you're on a ketogenic diet now but you you yeah so I've gone you were supposed to a ketogenic diet is a high-fat really low carb and moderate protein that's right yeah so the whole xxx was where I started and I found that tremendously helpful and like I said my wife who coaches the athletes that we work that she's doing one at the moment just sort of mostly in support of her friends I think in Santa Cruz but you know it's very sustainable you can go back and do it again and again and in fact my diet now would be completely whole 30 compliant and we really like the book it starts with food it's very very accessible if you're completely brand new or you you want to try and encourage somebody to get involved and they're totally brand new it starts with food by Melissa Hart work is very very good and they have some fantastic resources on their website whole things like shopping lists and meal plans and you know eat this don't eat that type resources that you need in the beginning so I find it very sustainable one of the things they sell the program on is it's only 30 days right it's like the greasy used-car salesmen pitch well can you do it for 30 it like you did with Ryan right like I bet you how long can you do this for well I guess it's a bit different is that there's a definite end to the program and you realize that you know you can do anything from one and then this is a trimming it feels like a sacrifice in the moment but it's not a true sacrifice it it's actually the opposite of that it's fueling your body even get to spend a month eating steak and eggs sometimes people like oh Jesus Christ I'd never really itíd liked eating cereal in the first place you mean I can eat bacon and eggs for breakfast again this is fantastic right right because we've also been sold this bill of goods that that you know salt is is bad and you eat the egg whites and not the yolks and all that nonsense this morning it was just across the road getting some breakfast when we turned up before before the podcast and the breakfast that I wanted had egg whites and when I wanted I was like can I have whole eggs that can I have the I'm on the yolk that's the best thing you know you're gonna throw that way for heat the butter eat the yolks yeah well what we've been told you know over many years in fact I was at the doctor's also then had the screen on on the wall and I won't go back to this doctor's office because it and it was talking about eating a diet that's low in fat and and like me and and like you could tell they just had this out-of-date sort of nutritional information and and they were talking about the food group still and I had a little thing of the MyPlate is now what is still wrong but it's called my plate used to be called the food pair no they still had the food peralta de electronic Nord so it looked new because it wasn't a poster was an actual like electronic board that had the food pyramid I'm like really you're still talking about eating the bread with yeah and so yeah although I mean it goes back to a previous question we talked about being obsessive I think being obsessing about this stuff to a certain extent is important but tell me what you were saying earlier is like yeah you want to control what you can control yeah you don't want to kill yourself because of it reminded me of this question I printed out this article I saw this it's from McSweeney's I'm sure you all are familiar with McSweeney's but um that's called the whole thirty challenge changed my entire relationship with food because I'm dead now I used to be just like you overweight lethargic a carbon sugar junky looking for my next fix until I tried whole thirty the incredible nutritional reset program and experienced a profound transformation of my body mind and spirit I cut sugar grains alcohol Dairy legumes and literally every other source of nutrition out of my diet for thirty days and I could honestly say that it has completely changed my relationship with food because I died on day 27 and no longer require sustenance we'll put a length of the whole article and in there I think maybe the important thing I want to illustrate here is take it seriously but I'll take it too seriously sometimes these things become religions and you've got team paleo and team and another carnivore diet this big thing and and I've seen people who go on and they solve these sort of autoimmune problems and I don't it's not the carnivore diet that's that's necessarily changing or fixing the eczema or whatever they have it is the fact that removing the other things that we're causing that is most always what you're not eating or what you end up not eating so I mean we mentioned whole thirty Lokar Kito all of those diets are great carnivore diet can be great we have some people who we put on what you would call a Whole Foods plant-based diet so a real food vegan low-fat diet for a very specific reason not long-term so depending on who you are a whole host of different diets maybe the best diet at that moment in time however almost all of them and there was a recent I think it was two or three years ago they all the guys who they're experts in all these diets you know so the vegans and the paleo guys and the low-carb guys they it was amazing I think in New York I think it was called the the old ways finding common ground or something that's what they were trying to do and what they figured out was that they agree on 80% of stuff which is donee refined carbohydrates refined fats and oils and all that kind of stuff oil you know the oil you know so once you remove those things actually what you're left with is usually some plants and some animal products and they look like food they look like what comes out of the ground or comes out of the animal as soon as you've you know slaughtered it so if you focus on those foods then obviously you can get into the macronutrients and keto low carb low fat but you know the most important thing is removing all the earth stuff so once you've taken out two cookies in the fast food and the pizza and all that stuff that's the most important thing and then you know once you've left with real food whatever it is you that's probably the point where most people can stop worrying about it yeah yeah and occasionally you will have something that won't be part of that and it won't be the end of the world I recognize these things sometimes sometimes we have these really small wins it's important to recognize those small wins but also recognize the small losses if you screw something up they don't say well I've ate half the cake I might as well eat the other half an hour all right no what the heck thing you can do that with with dieting that they set unreasonable goals which of course they don't meet and then they say what the heck and then they stop even counting and that's been shown if you have one bad meal that doesn't mean that the whole day is out the whole week is out and equally don't don't punish yourself so you know I sometimes eat cake and ice cream but I really enjoy it and then I don't worry about it it's a it's some food I had are usually having it with friends I'm enjoying I'm enjoying it in the moment and then don't think about it ever again and that's the really important thing don't punish yourself if if that does happen but you know equally the overall habit is the important thing yeah you still have to form that habit yes it be then be able to do the do the other bit and not deviate from the habit I last weekend had a piece of bread for the first time probably a decade and that was just because I couldn't digest bread well like it would just be this nightmare in my stomach and now that you all have helped me fix my gut I had a piece of a sourdough bread and it wasn't like you know Wonder bread or something it was if you can have nice bread enjoy it and I had a piece of bread and it didn't mess with me and I was so like shocked and I still have the habit of not eating anything any of that stuff usually but but having this one piece of bread and it was like this experience and I don't feel compelled to eat it every single day still in fact I feel compelled not to eat it every day so that if I do decide you know once a month or something to have a piece of bread I can truly enjoy it and maybe even have something to look forward to let's see here past life experience asks how necessary are most supplements depends on doesn't it magnesium what do we know about magnesium it's important for everything and everybody is deficient yeah it's like I take a magnesium supplement supplement that you all prescribed to me subscribe but I don't know you you you you recommend yeah there you go and I still take it a night like before you know before going to bed and I know that that is part of just my regular supplementation but I'm certainly not taking 112 pills a day now but there was a time where that was that was important for what I was trying to accomplish and then glycine is another one how many people are getting enough glycine yeah what does go so let's talk about magnesium let's talk about glycine one of those so magnesium is it's a nutrient element so like sodium you've probably heard from of from salt or calcium it's on the periodic table it's technically a metal it's important for a whole host of things including how your nerves function how you produce ATP in the mitochondria it's important for some of the enzymes that do that and it's you know very important for things like pressure cardiovascular disease risk and you know we know there's been a couple of review papers that came out recently one by Steven genuis we mentioned earlier the the the detox guy and then another one by James de nickel Antonio who's been doing a lot of work showing us that restricting salt intake is probably for most people gonna be harmful rather than beneficial it's all the other stuff in your diet that's the issue it's not the salt um and actually there's a whole host even though it's actually very hard to measure magnesium and detect a true magnesium deficiency but if you sort of really dig into it you can safely make the assumption that most of us are deficient and adding some back in taking a supplement is you know is very low risk with high potential rewards so that kind of thing and can be very can be very beneficial a glycine there's another one that's it's an amino acid so one of the building blocks of proteins but it doesn't tend to be in the protein sources that most of us eat nowadays like it's not in huge contents in plant proteins so that there is some and it's not really in muscle meats so if we're eating say steak you don't really get much glycine and there's some really important stuff about the balance of different amino acids in terms of how you then do all kinds of other metabolic reactions in the body so particularly methylation reactions of people might have heard of methylation methylation being an issue that some people have and glycine is very important in that pathway and others it's very it's mainly important for making connected tissue if your in terms of the building blocks but in order to get those building blocks you need to eat connective tissue and how often do we eat skin and bones and cartilage and stuff like that we just don't traditionally we may have done that we don't do that anymore so that way you have doing collagen with ascent glycine yeah okay okay so so I'm taking it without even knowing I'm taking yeah yeah outsource that kind of stuff yeah yeah but you can do I mean so if you're listening to this and you don't to spend a lot of money on a glycine supplement then you can just eat them eat the whole animal right a nose-to-tail make bone broth right a lot of butchers consider that stuff waste product so you get it super cheap the bones sometimes we'll have noticed some butchers are kind of cutting on now that they realize they can sell the bones for money whereas before they would give them away yeah the market works that way yeah so you roast the bones and then just drop them in some water if you've got an insta pot which is a pressure you can get from Amazon you can do bone broth in 90 minutes and then it's this rich latinus soup and it's rich in glycine so if you don't want to take a supplement you can you can certainly make it for yourself yes so any meat that's cut you know they're like the tough membrane and the stuff in the joints like oh that's that's where you're gonna get it skin so skiing or chicken or you know any other animal hasn't will have a good amount of glass in it so yeah you don't have to buy the supplements and I guess this is goes to the main point which is that if you manage to get if you're in good health and you manage to get all your ducks in a row in terms of maybe giving your body the nutrients is going to need from the diet most supplements are absolutely not necessary at all yeah yeah and one thing that I saw them in would tolerate organ meat yet yeah if you had it as a kid so my my wife actually ate a lot of organ meat when she was pregnant in the second half of pregnancy when she got after over the morning sickness and IV just came out loving organ me and she only eats you asked for the us wellness meats liverwurst in branch water have you tried that the us they do awesome like they're kind of fresh meat sausages which have a lot of liver and some heart and stuff in them and they've got they're really good and they don't taste they don't taste like awful I'll give that because right now I just been doing I do like beef liver pills or whichever one do you recommend yeah that's another way you do it I think that the u.s. Wellness meets the this breakfast sausages are really good they taste us like like deli meat real mocha I'll give it a shot for sure I'm at a point now where meat doesn't isn't just roll yeah of course I mean I do get that when I was the same I I was only eating fish in like the idea but that was kind of the deal I made with myself actually was if I was gonna eat me then I would eat the whole animal yeah rather than just I mean what we basically what we do is we take a cow and we just rip bits off of its legs and just eat that right and the rest of it goes in the trash you mind them there's a farm down the road from us in Bonnie Doon we asked them if we could have the organ meat and they said no we're not allowed to sell you that it has to go to like some freakin disposal visually generative it's absolutely bonkers like that's the best bit that's the only bit I can't get and if you again if you go to traditional cultures where you know we kind of feel like we can be informed by some of those people who are still living off the land you know how would they eat if they're having to you know either farm that just their own animals or then you know get plants out of the we know whatever wilderness is around them and you know so cattle herders please everything about the Maasai tribe you know they drink the blood and they eat the organs and in those kinds of sizes the dogs get the steak right that's that's not the intestines that you know that all those other bits that we just won't eat that's what is prized in those cultures and obviously you know and so you're eating the inside of the guts of this animal that was just killed and it's gonna be full of those bugs and probiotics and all that kind of stuff and that's the stuff that we just don't we don't really eat anymore so if you're not gonna eat those things and then you know maybe some supplements but it become important but you certainly can do it yeah yeah I think that that the key is making sure you're getting the nutrition you need and then you can supple yeah start now is a book and an approach with some irritation we are always ideally get to people get people to a point where they don't need supplements but sometimes you just can't do it for whatever reason and sometimes you you're not absorbing things properly and you just you've been in a bad enough place that you could never get back to 100% so if that means you have to take a little bit of magnesium and a little bit of glycine ah you know I think that's okay yeah yeah I think is potential downsides are quite small right the main one being financial there's very few supplements that you're going to cause a problem I mean I suppose if you just supplement with a ton of zinc by itself or iron when you didn't need it it means or a load of its activity right you can overdo it but generally you just create expensive P whereas the problems associated with the nutritional deficiency of devastating so I mean personally I'd rather go the first option sure and there are some supplement companies that are better than others I mean often we have thorne supplements because they're the most similar to they have the rigorous yeah they've got really good scientists and doctors on their team who choose the most bioavailable forms of all of the micronutrients and then another thing we love with them especially working with athletes who get tested is they do they use the similar technology that we use when we're testing new the human they test use that same technology to test the supplements to make sure that it is what they think it is right so you know maybe your pea protein has got cadmium in it unless it's definitely plausible and I think it probably has been found and so they're making sure that's not happening by testing the supplement it goes into quarantine when it first arrives and then they do they test it two more times as it's going through production so that the standard of care the quality is very very high and you pay for it but you also know you know what you're getting creatine is another one there oh yeah that's a crazy I mean if you'd especially if you're an athlete like this not really much of a reason not to take creatine now is there yeah I think I take one scoober is that five milligrams five grams okay yeah five grams one teaspoon it's probably if it's like a teaspoon or a group of five mils scoop it's probably like two to three grams I was just plenty for that for the average person it's I mean most people could probably benefit from from some creatine wiser again so it goes back to it it goes back largely to methylation so producing creatine is one of the most methylation heavy processes in the body and basically what creatine does is it's a it's a buffer for very very rapid energy usage particularly the muscles but it's also important in the brain and other parts of the body and so that's you know that when you do something very very fast the first offloading of energy comes from creatine and so it's just like it's basically an energy buffer in the body but the the it's very intense very methylation and metabolically intensive to reduce it and so and people who eat a lot of meat if you eat you know a pound a pound or two of beef a day you probably get you know around one to two grams of creatine that's probably enough of people aren't eating that much red meat then they can usually benefit from supplementation it's the most heavily researched supplement in terms of sports performance and particularly in weightlifting or sprinting activities but you don't want the big sugary creatine you know yeah a lot of people in fact it's so cheap now nobody's making crap creatine because it's it's to Sochi so actually you can still buy a crab curry I mean you walk walk past all the way by is it sick a towel no this is this is this the one important thing about creatine so I was going off on my tangent about creatine but by is called creapure creatine monohydrate it's made in Germany and so basically all the creatine that you buy is is is usually just white labeled Korea people they buy in bulk in Germany and then they put their sticker on it that is what you want if it's not creapure it's basically made in some industrial state in in China and Lord knows what's in there so yeah so you can trust the thorn one other one can trust I thought the Korea pure was so cheap that it wasn't worth anyone ya know you can still find ones that aren't and what creep your is so cheap but you can still find ones that have examined calm it's a great resource actually thinking about it they've got all if you want to see all the scientific references on creatine then examine calm it's a fantastic resource or any supplement for that matter and I still take like the thorn am/pm sort of multi vitamin D is that yeah so so that's just your general multivitamin and then the bio just mmm that's sports and legends of enzymes and some so basically for people you have had chronic gut issues breaking down and absorbing nutrients is often still an issue because the body needs to produce those and when all of your systems have been struggling that's just one of the things that gets shut down is is producing those enzymes and it's one of those things where you know haven't done hundreds of big studies on them because nobody gonna make any money out of settings are just of enzymes but a lot of people seem to benefit particularly early on as they're supporting their gut just by taking some digestive enzymes and again we work with a lot of athletes and there there are some good studies on supplementing various enzymes and seeing improvements in terms of recovery so there's there's definitely enough to suggest that if you you know you're really struggling with digestion you like you get bloated after you eat and you know obviously you might have some deeper issue that you need to treat it's the food side of things once you fix the food side of things and if there's something in the gut that needs to be you know gotten rid of this doesn't mean take biology and then eat the pizza yeah that doesn't solve all the problems sadly but it can certainly help as you as you start to get that stuff back online okay gotcha and I'm trying to think if there's anything else that I'm taking regularly but that sounds right I do occasionally some fish oil from thorn if I'm not eating sardines at the time so I try to get it through sardines first but then if I don't I can supplement with with some fish oil but that's just because so sorry I mean that's literally what the word means and the small fish sardines have less time to bioaccumulate mercury and so that's probably why they're better than the huge fish they'd be down a lot longer yeah for sure they don't taste as good but it's its food as medicine all right so that's actually a good also a good source of collagen and glycine if you get the the sardines they come in a can with skin and bones yeah well in it yeah well the playing well plant ones are great all that stuff goes in you you're getting all that stuff with that again without using a whole animal you're in a dream the whole lot I buy them by the case on Amazon yeah jerilyn they just got into that game like I should have put more shares in wild planet right yeah they but they do it right and so in it's one of those places that you can trust as opposed to just go into in some parts the world it's all that culture I was in Portugal last summer and it's a quite I think it's quite a deep part of their culture and they actually have shops on the high street and so nothing but sardines you go in there and it's all these and it's almost like ah you know that the cans are all so beautifully painted and there's so much care and attention has gone into the shop it's it's obviously a thing there and somehow it's just not in our culture for some reason for anybody who gets weirded out by like oh my god skin and bones I don't but you don't know you don't taste it it's there there's no textural component just kind of like dissolves in the mouth you don't even you don't taste it because the sardines kind of gross and so everything else started most the time when we work with people and they say they don't like sardines that does not have good sardine right right I totally agree that in the wild plan once I get the lemon ones with its lemon olive oil and so like it's sort of masked the flavor pleasure it's it's high in fat too and so like it's better than just getting like sardines that are flopping around in water from like a Costco I'm sorry yeah you know you don't want that I once wrote an article for a Florida Fitness website telling people not to eat protein bars into it just see a tin of soybeans instead because like if you eat a low carb protein bar like the the nutrition that you get in terms of protein and fats life is almost identical to a tin of sardines but obviously there's all this other good stuff in there like got loads of my people like you're asking people to eat sardines after the gym it's super weird but that's what I would yeah well I agree with you and by the way I think that's just a good rule of thumb anyway it's like if it comes in a package is probably not worth eating and in the first place right and so I think that this is we can wrap up the supplement discussion with the best supplementation is food and then if you can't get it from food then all the stuff we talked about you can actually supplement the food that you're eating this one tricky one of two still awkward what's important that's vitamin k2 like how does someone that doesn't eat that weird Japanese natto what does k2 is that in the multivitamin it's it's a one of the fat soluble vitamins that basically tells your body it does a number of things but it it's mainly largely important in terms of telling your body where calcium should go so like vitamin D is very important for like strong bones and all that kind of not putting calcium in your arteries which can cause a heart attack sort of but there it comes from liver and eggs and then the the most concentrated and send some cheese but the most concentrated source is Chinese is Japanese fermented soy beans called natto okay which is really is it's I mean you talked about not like in sardines natto is not good like it's it's hard if it's not been part of your culture to eat it it's hard to eat so sometimes so I mean if you're eating two or three pastured eggs a day you're probably getting enough k2 but if you're not say yeah yeah I mean because there's a there's a big study done in Holland I think we showed that you basically need like 15 to 30 micrograms a day it's not very much okay but most people if you're just eating a highly refined standard American diet you're not getting enough k2 gotcha well I was gonna also mention probiotics but I think the next question here is from April April is what are the best things you can do on a daily basis to maintain good gut health so this is I mean this is almost like a buzzword right we hear gut health and like I'm seeing on all the products and and I'd see it on Cheerios now good gut health I mean I don't know it's actually I wouldn't be surprised if that's what they so I think we have to be a bit cautious too and when we talk about good gut health one of the things that I think most expensive thing the supplement that I have has to do with the probiotic yeah refrigerated probiotics yeah so can we talk a bit about probiotics and when they're necessary when they aren't yeah sure I mean so arts the original question I think the best thing you can do for your gut health on an ongoing basis without spending a fortune on probiotics is to eat a wide variety of vegetables and what about fermented foods yeah fermented foods I mean what do you think Tommy yeah I mean so the kimchi you know it's I think it's interesting again that most cultures have had some kind of access to a fermented food you know you need a food to last longer than you have it for then there's some kind of fermentation process and you know when you put from it like fermented food or a probiotic so these are bacteria you're putting in your mouth they don't really go into the gut and set up shop they don't then become the bacteria in the gut but they do seem to help some processes along it's just we're used to being exposed to these things and they can have some beneficial effects but this certainly doesn't need to be you know come in a supplemental form so yes some fermented foods are great they're not a sin you're eating a wide variety of foods be they plants be they you know so actually you can get some some of those prebiotics which feeds the gut bacteria from from like the collagen and all that you know the bones and having fiber animal fiber you might call it so so so basically and anything like that which sort of can feed so you're not bacteria in on the food you're trying to give the bacteria what it needs in order to be able to grow and survive and thrive okay and I mean the caveat with that is that if you're somebody who's had gut issues for a long period of time or you have some kind of overgrowth we've taken antibiotics and you've fostered some kind of some kind of issue there then those are the exact foods they're going to be trigger foods for you you know those wide variety of fibers and then you might need to try something called well you might need to do some testing you might need to try something called a low fodmap diet which basically he removes those fibers you may even need to go even further and do like an elemental diet which basically takes out anything that the bacteria in the gut can ferment and then you build back up right it's not a long-term thing you do that to try and starve down a population of bacteria that's causing an issue and then the corner of our diet helps people with issues occurs you have to look in some extreme cases like an extreme IBS I've seen people talking about where they've removed essentially all fiber in order to fix which it's counterintuitive at first so you want fiber to you know clear you out but the fiber is actually the thing that's there's giving you the problem and it's interacting with the gut in a weird way and by sort of depriving yourself maybe at least temporarily maybe it gives the the gut time to sort of work it out yeah there's actually interestingly very little evidence that adding fiber to the diet causes any real benefit which is again one of the contrary to one of the things that we've we've often been told and in one specific scenario which is IBS irritable bowel syndrome and in constipation actually taking out fiber seems to seems to be beneficial and again doesn't need to be a long-term thing but that could that's definitely where some people are seeing benefit on something like a carnivore type diet where they're taking out all plants and all the fiber associated with them and it kind of makes sense so if you imagine a tube that's blocked up the answer to that problem isn't stuffing more stuff into the tube because that's just gonna cause more of a blockage right and this is all these uh in my head like I'm so when I first came to you I had all kinds like there would be days I wouldn't go to the bathroom for like three or four days sometime yeah I mean I think yes another way you get rid of toxic yeah I would pee just fine but like I was just not pooping just a regular basis was not happening and then I changed a few things and my diet just by default we were removing some fibers from my diet because I was eating more meat so my calories were coming from more protein and fat right and things started moving and now I go every single day and often twice a day and that is one of the largest improvements I don't have the terrible gut pain when I came to you guys like I just knew like regularly I'm just gonna every time I eat I'm just gonna be in pain for a few hours yeah it's not under eating actually it's when they feel like that right and I I didn't I didn't know III I didn't know what to do and then I when I came to you guys we started working together it's sort of by default we remove some of the excess fibers like I didn't realize like how much an Apple would just mess me up which you wouldn't think people often yeah apple a day keeps the doctor no it just kept me from going to the bathroom that was the problem and that's what was appropriate for me and eating more more meat actually helped solve a lot of the gut problems I was having mixed with the probiotics and all the other things that we did to help fix the gut so now that I do have good gut health what sounds like what I do now is wide variety of foods you know vegetables and natural foods your real foods I should say and none of the processed stuff and then if I want to supplement a bit with sauerkraut or kimchi or kombucha occasionally then those things don't hurt at all right it may even help a little bit yeah right it's confusing because you know the thing that's going to help you in the beginning is not necessarily the same thing that's going to help you in the long term another thing that's going to help you in the long term may be detrimental right at the start if you're gonna try and eat like that immediately back then you would have felt tuck you know lots of kimchi and fermented loads of fiber you would have felt terrible but now it makes you feel good and it helps so it's just the the appropriate thing at the appropriate time is that you know so it's sadly not an easy answer what do you think we talked about putting the fire out first yes before rebuilding the house but now I don't want to go and like take a fire extinguisher to my walls it wouldn't make any sense to do that now and so yeah it's it's what's the appropriate time and this is in the the I don't know a whole lot about this but I hear this also is a buzzword so Don asks can you talk about candida overgrowth and its symptoms and the natural methods of eliminating it so I I assume this is often related to our extreme intake of sugar and and yeah I guess sugars right can you talk about Candida and why it's become a pop culture phenomenon recently yeah it certainly can be and so and the the the sugar aspect to it may well be part of it and we talked about I said this is it might be what is candy as a yeast ox I might call it yeast overgrowth that's nothing and you might recognize Candida because it can cause thrush so you know rashes in the the genital area has often caused by the same the same yeast and the symptoms are wide and varied and it's you know we tend to see it quite quite frequently and we pick it up as a metabolite of the yeast in the urine that's where that's how that's how we pick it up and so a while back Chris actually built some machine learning algorithms to try and predict biochemical problems so things you might see in the guts or in hormones or in the blood based on just the responses to some question and like a standard question I people come in they answer 50 questions and they just say you know that you know how well do you sleep you know not very well or very well or you know how lowly do you feel or you know do you feel that you're a part of a group of friends and you say like not very much or very much so it's basically you're looking on a scale of one to five and one of the things that predicts a yeast overgrowth is is sugar cravings or you know feeling cravings for sugar so we're previously that was kind of like one of those things where we were like oh we're not really sure if that's the case at least from our data from the people that we work with that certainly seems to be the case that it was predictive of a yeast overgrowth and it can be associated with all those other things so we talked about brain fog or systemic inflammation I can produce something called oxalate which can then like do funny things with the minerals in your body may be associated with things like joint pain and maybe with kidney stones a bit sort of depending on who you are that the symptoms can be varied if you do have a test with and/or you can see on a stool test – if you have a load of yeast that just turns up in your poop you know that's probably a bad sign yeah and again just like the bacteria in the gut you will have some yeast and your gut that's very normal it's just when they start to sort of take over or feel an itch that's theirs but the other bacteria have left because they've been killed with antibiotics or something mm-hmm and then and this is actually one of the cornerstones of the things that Chris started doing with his clients um so maybe you can talk about it but some some herbal protocols can can usually be very effective it's gonna say you asked a question about probiotics earlier then this might be I mean so that's when we use them is with a specific application in mind I don't take a probiotic for no reason just as like I take the multivitamin it's for a specific application and so sacrum Isis Berardi actually I think there's some some evidence for that as another use which is another he stay running and it's not coming along and setting up shop it's just temporarily creating an environment that's not conducive towards Candida and then it's gone the whole lot of them are gone and actually it's there's some evidence to show that it's helpful with overgrowth of seed if as well that's why I was taking yeah exactly it's super high doses like sometimes people say oh yeah I took one capsule that didn't do anything you were taking like how many capsules a day at the beginning well no I was doing the powder stuff oh that's that that's a different one they said yeah I'm pretty sure you did at the beginning as a long time I was every year ago oh yeah okay like 16 capsules a day or something it was it was quite a bit yeah then some so we often use some herbal protocols so Oregon Oh or oregano dried in works great our DDO biocide in which is a it's like a tincture of various different Hubbs there's also something called under 'selenic acid or SF 72 which also has some Laura sided loris item which is derived from coconut so there's there's there's quite a few things that can work against the yeast overgrowth but again find the thing that caused that problem in the first beast doesn't just show up in some kind of so are you maybe know compromised or have you done some kind of damage to your gut so there's some really interesting work that basically shows that once you have you've set up an inflammatory process in the gut you start to feed a whole different set of bacteria there are some bacteria that work really well in that environment in there were the some that don't so is there something else that's causing an issue in the gut which then or you know causing an issue with your immune system which then allows the candida to set up shop you know there's always going to be a layer beneath it so start by thinking about and again it comes back to diet and environment and stress and all those other things try and figure that out and then usually eradicate in the East itself it is in most people it is fairly easy okay so do you have a terrible time with it with the athletes so I mean we're wondering whether over exercising their sizes problems actually causing the inflammatory environment in the gut and then the bifida bacteria goes away and then Candida maybe ever grows it's just kind of you know at the moment but we do see a lot in our athletes okay so so in the case of an athlete maybe reducing the amount of yeah but you're never gonna get them studio I know just take them on a lure at that point right like okay we did a reasonable investigation and we got as far as we could and now in us need to make a decision and you know yeah I don't you know so I mean you know we have some guys who the the sport pays the bills right here if you're a pure Olympian to say Zelly if you're if you're an Olympian or you're a professional athlete and that's wonder I don't know you can't you just can't you can't do they can't say oh well one you just stopped training right then it's like well why don't you stop paying your mortgage it just doesn't make any sense so I already went to the doctor and you already told me to stop exercise I think that's why I'm here so then you get to a point where you know maybe maybe appreciate that during hard periods of training you're gonna develop some kind of issues of the guts so you just cycle through you know you take some organic or you take some similar aside or something and it just sort of keeps things under control and then during the off-season your gut settles out and it's just it has to be part of your protocol as an athlete just because that's that's the nature of the game got you all right we got let's see we have two more questions I want to save them for the PostScript episode so these questions have to do with sadness depression overwhelm despair and other emotions and also anxiety so each week we record a postscript episode for our patreon supporters so if you all want to listen to that you can go over to the minimalists comm slash support will do a quick PostScript episode but before we we finish this up here there are a few other words here that then we probably didn't get to we talked about toxins we talked about immune system we talked we talked a little bit about hormones so anything else that we should maybe talk about I don't one thing that you told me Chris was hey we do we test for for guys like testosterone has always went there how can I increase my testosterone and I did have I had low testosterone when we first tested it and now I have moderate but it's on the low side of moderate I think there's a way you probably described it was 502 or so you're well within what we would call the normal range but you're just outside what I like the ideal ideal you know obviously enough of an increase to see to see the benefit yeah I don't know roar was originally but it was well below that and we've done several tests since then but and it's improved incrementally but also improvement doesn't necessarily mean like well I need to get this to 800 right I want to have like I mean there's there's a term roid-rage where someone is just like totally you know that they're full of testosterone and you all sent me some studies that were fascinating about the the increase in crime for people with high I don't think it's a normal physiological levels of testosterone don't don't cause that type of behavior right when you talk about roid rage you're talking about exogenous testosterone and it just modulates an existing behavior rather than causing it to begin with there's some really interesting stuff around it increases the likelihood that a behavior could a behavior that you might have a propensity to do anyway might increase the likelihood that that that will happen and if anybody's interested in this stuff you should read behave by Robert we have to mentioned him he's one of our you know he's heroes yeah absolutely what a link to all these books in the shownotes people can dive in deep but yeah so I guess so the main the main so the main thing that testosterone can do is it switches off the prefrontal cortex which is like where your deliberation and your it's your filter right so it switches off it can switch off the filter and it's not like you know if you if you take testosterone all of a sudden you become an asshole it's like it it makes certain things more likely to happen but the main the main summary is that more isn't necessarily better right you need enough for all those processes to happen what a metaphor for life as we call it enough is 'm and ya you need you need enough testosterone but you know we've had people who are like i'm gonna be fixed and feel great when my testosterone reaches a thousand and that's it's just not true like there's there's there's nothing that's gonna change when your testosterone goes from seven hundred to a thousand because you already have enough that to do all the things that you need to do so like and again it goes back to the test results you know you can fund you can fetishize a number and we do see quite a lot of that but in reality the subjects you experience is much more important yeah do you have any symptoms of low testosterone and if you don't then great tip you know job done we don't need to worry about but if you have low libido or sex drive in fact there were some questions that you asked me early on I had that I had to do some serious rumination about it you rely you talked about why are you attracted to your partner right and I think that that's one thing because I was in a long marriage and I know like eventually we totally grew apart and there was a problem there and it didn't have anything to do with hormones at the time it was my mid 20s and and it just had to do that we grew apart and like no I don't think we were attracted to each other anymore like we were really good roommates and in fact we still we get a long way better now than we ever did when I married she has you know a great family now and we can talk and like we have a good friendship but we we weren't and and so you asked me that question and I had to like really step back and think like and the answer was yeah I'm crazy attract attracted the blacks and like it's it's proven out in the physiology now but there was a period of time where yeah I mean it was like well if I could just fix my testosterone but that's kind of like saying what if I bought the third BMW then I'll be happy you know if some of the seven hundred testosterone they're trying to get to a thousand and it's like okay but why why are you trying to do this and I think it's the same thing we look at our material possessions or we look at our health like what are the symptoms what are you trying to fix here and I think sometimes we don't know we just we chase after a number or a thing or a status or a number of followers or whatever right without the thing of why we're doing this right and it's this goal this trap of constant horizon seeking I hear that a lot from from clients oh I'll be happy when I lose another ten pounds I'll be happy when my total testosterone is 700 I'll be happy where and of course as soon as you get to 700 or 10 pounds light or whatever it is that's the next horizon becomes and then then you just chasing your tail forever yeah yeah and being being happy with enough is like is like the the that's what minimalism is for me it's the it's the art of having enough I figure out what enough is for me because there was a there was a point where I didn't have an appropriate amount my hormones were out of whack and it calls low libido it caused all these problems and and now the other nice thing is my partner and I both have really similar libidos and I think that's that's one thing if you're dealing with someone else who who your significant other you're looking for a partner like finding someone with with a libido that matches yours is is something that is like really gratifying because you know I'm not trying to have sex 14 times a day but but but I also have the desire to have sex with the person I'm with and it makes for a really fulfilling relationship so you asked me some really hard questions we first when we first talked because I have to reveal that most as I saw it questions with tommays this is the way that we operate at nourish balance thrive is that we have this team of people and you know we get together and it's a scrum is an appropriate word as we said the agile tech not we use a system of dividing conflict conquer to get stuff done with our clients and they have this part of it is the scrum and it's a metaphor for you know when you throw the ball into the the scrimmage underneath you spike it's a bit like that so we back things around and yeah quite often one of us health coaches will then go up and have that go on and have that hard conversation with the client and its really here this asking all these hard questions well you get to ask all the hard question yeah after actually break eye contact Roxy yeah so it's great because we can talk about so if somebody has low libido or erectile dysfunction I can say Chris well ask him whether whether he finds his partner attractive but asking whether he's masturbating to pornography you know I'll sum all these other things I don't have to do it Chris does yeah I mean the answers there the thing that's like important like if if you're used to a level of weirdness that's only obtainable from pornography good luck trying to get turned on when your experience will real life is like a thankfully vex gets really weird so we're good in that department yeah yeah yeah we can we can replicate a lot of what's on the Internet let's see what else we have here skin and acne we kind of talked about you mean you mentioned it with with thrush uh-uh that that's one type of like that that's I don't know if you'd categorize that as an autoimmune response but but there are a lot of other like eczema or acne or one of the other ones that that I mean the skin lard largest organ in the body we didn't have a lot of problems with it I know if I eat dairy I break out and figuring that out just allowed me to cut dairy out of my diet know how few people figure that out by the way like I think a lot how many young women are eating dairy today and ending up with terrible acne and just and not and then they do exactly what you do you go to the doctor and they get they prescribed antibiotics for the acne right yeah well and that's the other thing man I so and I don't know if they'll be the long-term effects of this we'll see but uh accutane was one thing that I took for several years way longer than the normal rounds people usually take and he put same doctor who gave me the back Trent put me on a fairly benign dose of a key my lips are bleeding but didn't have any acne and and so yeah we want the magic pill as opposed I didn't know man I mean if you would have just said hey yeah that's because you're eating dairy and by the way you have this weird soy allergy that most people don't have but you do and it makes your head break out if you stop eating that or I can't tell you how that for sure but why don't you try eliminating it for 30 days I mean the problem is that most people have an emotional attachment to food that you obviously don't and I'm the same as you I don't have emotional attachments to food but people definitely have an emotional attachment to cheese yeah my partner she's from Minnesota and when school Wisconsin alt you could ever get her some is she she functions fine she thrives on cheese everything's fine with her right but in our five-year-old I mean you try to take you have to pull the cheese out of her dead hands but thankfully they're fine on it right and but I think we have to realize that well if we have skin problems then its profit it's caused by what we're putting into our body not always but quite often yeah it's and so a lot of skin issues seem like again we go back to the gut so rosacea something that people often like reddening or changing of the skin on the face though that's that's very seems to be well connected to a small intestinal bacterial overgrowth so again just a dysbiosis or an imbalance of the bacteria in the gut certain again also immune skin conditions a allergies so ex-mo as part of that kind of with seasonal allergies and asthma sort of like a2p we call that which is just sort of being allergic to a lot of different stuff and that can also be associated with gut issues acne as seems to be you know problems with so people who have very high levels of insulin have a lot of kin that can contribute to acne so dairy we know particularly milk is great increasing insulin so so milk is often a big issue and then also refined carbohydrates you know large glucose spikes large insulin spikes that seems to be of course a problem for people with acne so again I was like covered in it when I was eating yeah yeah well went away when I took and we hear that all the time so people don't come to us necessarily to fix skin issues but you're like you fix that diet they're like oh my god my skin is amazing they just didn't even realize that it was a problem and until they started eating better yeah and that's the thing like mine got so bad in my early 20s that I finally went to a dermatologist who provided all these solutions right and and all I had to do was change a few things in my own my own life and my diet and I would have radically improved all these these these problems that I had and I think I think the the key is like be willing to experiment be willing to eliminate some stuff and see what happens if you eliminate something for 30 days and all of a sudden your skin gets better then great maybe you don't bring it back in or if you do bring it back in a miniscule level yeah every once while he said maybe you eat a piece of cake every once in a while but it's no longer that glass of milk with with next to the glass of orange juice for breakfast right yeah all right what else do I have here Oh what are you worried your thoughts on alcohol and coffee both can but both can be but I limit myself I do three cups a day now I now in the corporate world full disclosure here I worked 80 hours a week and I did I probably had 20 cups of coffee a day oh wow and I and I of course I was like the coffee too so I'd put like dairy and and Splenda that was all yeah and so like I'm just like take it that's not even that's not just coffee either but but if I saw I drink two or three cups of coffee a day and I always get these this conflict' and it's black coffee and it's really good coffee but I get conflicting sort of advice and reports back on that yes so if you're again so it kind of depends and there's multiple ways to look at it so coffee has been shown to all be associated so it they haven't done like randomized control trials but if you look at PD Mia logically associated with a number of benefits in terms of reduced risk of strokes and diabetes and Alzheimer's disease and all that kind of stuff and and actually some of those benefits even com if you're drinking decaf coffee because it's so some of the some of the like phenolic compounds that are in the coffee rather than the caffeine itself people who may or may not benefit from from from CAF the caffeine itself is to do with how well you metabolize caffeine you can actually you can actually measure that if you're worried about it so you know some people just metabolize caffeine really slowly it really affects them you know that's my partner so yeah the 23andme thing yeah and then you'd say who do we send that off to um I forget Ben Lynch strategies yes yes and and yeah I metabolize caffeine very quickly she metabolize it really slowly so she can't have anything after like 7:00 a.m. or she's screwed later later tonight so that's that's part of it I used to dress so I drink a lot of coffee probably 50 to 75% of what I drink is decaf Swiss water process decaf cuz I just like I like the coffee that my first cup in the morning has caffeine and then after that because I used to think caffeine doesn't affect me and then I was like well do you know what maybe I'll see if I notice whether I sleep better and I do if I don't have if I post my cat Coffee is decaffeinated then I definitely sleep out in the evening so that's you might it's the same with loads of things that you exposed to you like oh yeah that doesn't bother me until you remove it you don't notice the effect that it actually has and the Swiss water processes is the thing that you're talking about that is important here just knowing a little bit about coffee Ryan and I own a coffee shop down in st. Pete and a roaster and quite often the decaf beans that you buy you know if you go buy Folgers decaf at your local Walmart it's just the worst of the worst beans and then the the process of decaffeinated them basically is is it's a chemical process so they throw a bunch of chemicals on there and what you're talking about Swiss water process is a natural way to D to remove the vast majority of case decaffeinated doesn't mean no caffeine it means a radically reduced that your average cup goes from 100 milligrams to maybe 500 grams Kathy yes most of there's a lot of organic solvents so if you imagine like tipping your beans in like paint stripper and then and then right so that's essentially I mean a lot of that stuff evaporates because it's very volatile but still you know not not ideal so as splendid yeah so I think does that cover all your coffee questions yeah I think so that now let's let's talk about alcohol I don't drink personally yeah but then you always hear these this conflicting information one glass of red wine you know increases was very troll or water so the interesting thing about resveratrol so again resveratrol was gonna be the anti-aging compound that is making every live forever they recently did a study using high doses of resveratrol in people with type 2 diabetes and actually in those in the high group high dose group actually got worse so it's not the miracle drug that we once thought it was but actually to get that kind of resveratrol from why you need to drink like 20 gallons a day or something so that's definitely not alright every day that's not why that's not why alcohol can be beneficial and so again if you look at studies of people and you ask them how much they drink then you follow them over time those are drink a small amount so on average one to do one to two drinks a day or on average around one drink a day they do seem to you know have lower disease risk live longer there's multiple parts of that if you're sick you're less likely to drink so you automatically stack the deck against those who aren't drinking and then you know there's there's also the obviously if you drink a lot that's and most people who drink drink too much and that's associated with a whole host of other issues however again going back to the coffee the same the same with the alcohol if it's a small amount and you're enjoying it and you're enjoying it with others and it's a it's a process of socialization and that nice glass of red wine means that you're with friends and having good conversation and all that stuff then that's great is that one glass of wine going to make you healthier but who knows but it's probably is it's certainly not as Pro it's certainly not gonna be detrimental at least for most people and then the the the sort of the the setting and all that you know can can be beneficial so again a small amount is absolutely fine we have no reason to think that it's going to be detrimental you know there's if it's you get home after work and you're by yourself in front of the TV drinking a beer I'm again so like you you can do it better and I think that's kind of that's how you should think about it so it can be fine it's likely has few if any health benefits and obviously drinking too much has a wholesome male but there may well be there may well be a small health benefit the problem is that it's very difficult to find that signal because of light like I mentioned previously those who don't drink there are lots of other reasons why they don't drink so then when you see like the curve of amount drunk versus health you it's very difficult to pass out what's a true benefit versus what's like just a statistical anomaly based on who you're sampling so there may be a small benefit there may not be a benefit I would you know if you're enjoying in as part of like a bigger thing so I mean as I was talking to a client just yesterday and that you know she mentioned that she hasn't been drinking but the but the other day she was with her friends in Italy they were by a lake and it was sunny and she had half a glass of red wine I was like great well that's the play life you're gonna drink like that's the perfect way to do it right you're with your friends you're enjoying it you're in the sunshine that's fine but don't don't like go home and like chug a glass of red wine so you think is gonna make you live like I mean yeah Ryan I thought so I we both have families who struggle a lot with alcohol and drug abuse both my parents were like extreme alcoholics reason I've never touched a drink in my life because they drank enough for from my entire life as well but no Ryan throughout his 20s and he's talked about this before on the podcast and in writing he would and actually in our the next film we have coming out he really he doesn't act a deep dive in this but we we talk about he would go home and have a case of beer a case there's 24 K while sitting full I think about six-pack no case and then you know the go to the bar afterward and so like there's obviously there's nothing healthful about about that type of experience but there are times what sounds to me that we were saying is there times where maybe it's social lubrication one drink is not a bad thing but also don't think it has the magical benefits is gonna fix your life even though but again it's one that you know when you sort of create a robust healthy human then you know you can tolerate more of these things that doesn't mean you should holler you should force yourself to tolerate them but right you know in many of the people that we work with you know cutting out alcohol altogether to begin with is is very important but then I think some of that back in can certainly have benefits for multiple reasons can we talk about CBD and THC I mean we both live in states where that's legal now yeah and I can tell you I first started doing CBD oil last year and just to help out with with sleep I've heard people talk about you it's good for back pain and all this other stuff and I found the curcumin is actually way way better for back pain than the CBD oil was for me ala but I haven't tried the lotions and stuff like that but then also THC and edibles especially like Dole spray or like a vape pen before going to bed I found that that helps me out a little bit with sleep if I'm if I'm struggling with sleep so I know there are obvious upsides and downsides I'd like to get some opinions on this we have some data we don't even need it yeah and we were we were actually talking about this over breakfast that's the kind of guys that we are yeah so the interesting thing is that CBD on its own based on the data that's available should not help with sleep so basically when they've looked at it and they've given people CBD alone or CBD plus THC the CBD alone can actually cause alertness and it may be to do with how CBD and THC affect cortisol metabolism there's some other stuff of it you know the the signal the ways they signal you know so some people may sleep worse if they take CBD and but when you add THC then people seem to sleep better so there's like there's a synergism there however I can say for personal experience that I've tried CBD alone before bed and it certainly seems to help it certainly does seem to help me sleep and why that is I actually I actually don't know I don't have a study to say this is why I think there's the you know there's gonna be an interaction with all the other things that are going on in the gut CBD has certainly been shown or you know to improve got information got health I don't think that's an issue for me but that's particularly animal studies and now it's being translated to you know CBD is now being used for in cancer therapies and epileptics and they're starting to use it in people with inflammatory bowel disease so can certainly have a number of benefits I haven't tried the CBD plus THC THC was more of a thing I did in my teenage years but but have both been shown potentially to help with sleep the the potential downsides are obviously then can interfere with cool summers hablas and all this other stuff so if it's not causing it if it's not causing you benefit then you know there's no there's potential downsides for taking it so I mean we do think you know particularly for people you know heavy marijuana uses there is some risk of mental health issues if that's coming from THC or other things you know of it's obviously the the strength the concentration of THC in marijuana has increased dramatically over the last few decades so there's there's multiple factors that play there if you're taking ten milligrams of THC with 30 milligrams of CBD before bed you know you're probably well under that risk for sholde but there are studies that show that it interferes with hormone metabolism called cell metabolism so it's just it's at the moment is kind of a try it out and see if it benefits you but equally you know we roll back to our continuous message which is why aren't you sleeping in the first place right you don't want to medicate yourself to sleep you want to find out what it is it's causing your poor sleep in the first place similar to the melatonin supplements that can help but but that is a band-aid off a band-aid you not having enough melatonin because you're exposing yourself to bright lights and light all we know it's something like that right and so I think the micro dose for the few times where I've done edibles where I get a like oh I can't do anything else besides eat potato chips today I just I don't like the feeling and so I tend to I tend to avoid avoid that but I also have found the mental health thing so I have the mental health problems running my family my dad with schizophrenic my brother was schizophrenic killed himself and so I know like that's the reason I won't do suicide but in other things because there's a potential for you know even though I think I'm well past the age at this point where those symptoms would present themselves I do notice that the couple times where I've tried that an edible that is like Oh like this is too much the next day I it's like the roller coaster there you can't have the high without the low sort of thing and the entire next day I'm just like oh boy I should be happy right now but I cannot be happy this is a thing this is a story for anything that you take to try and change the way your brain functions what we usually say is there's no biological free lunch right you can't ask your brain to do something which you wouldn't normally do and then expect it to be completely normal after so nootropics are a classic example you know you take these compounds are supposed to increase brain cognitive function various brain functions but it might increase function in one area but it makes you less good in another area and then some maybe well I will do I'll take a nootropic use your book the only time I do is before a podcast yeah and I know in the afternoons I all I have this crush yeah yeah there is a nootropic crash for me I thought maybe I was unique in that because I've never heard anyone else talk about it but no I'm certain if experience the same and there are some some nootropics that are basically just like the kitchen sink everything's in there and this sort of wire switches everything on you definitely notice a difference but then you gotta calm down later so I I often likened it to taking MDMA where you always switch everything on you feel great and then you know a few hours later you have this you have this big come down and it's not the same for everybody again it's something that you have to experiment with yourself but but you know again we go back to why isn't your brain functioning as you would like it to why do you feel the need to take something to enhance your brain function are there other things you could be fixing and therefore you don't need to stay that intro pic in the first place you know that's always where we're gonna go back to and then if you know occasionally you need to try something about you just need to be aware they're asking your body or brain to do something you wouldn't normally do you might gonna you're gonna pay for it later yeah either the THC thing is not to a point where it's or at least that I feel there's any sort of psychoactive effect it's it's like micro dosing that's like 1 or 2 milligram sort of thing and the thing that helps me with is with the sleep is it prolongs the the period where I stay asleep another thing that has really helped me and I I've had to get really sort of diligent about it and I screw up still all the time water I drink a lot of water during the day but I stop at 5:00 p.m. I stop drinking liquids of 5:00 and that way I don't feel compelled to get up at 3:30 a.m. to pee which but sometimes when that happens I get up at 3:30 a.m. and I'm like I'm up I can't get back to sleep now and so I found those two things for me in the water is probably way more helpful than than the THC to be honest with you so just something to think about any other words about THC no it's not something they've already interested me on the c-word site about the stuff that's free like sunshine I'm very excited about whereas yeah sunshine deficiency can definitely cause insomnia so like you can fix that first before having to buy a supplement we so we the one reason why we talk about CBD is because again it might help with people with inflamed guts and we see a lot of those so we know a lot of people who feel they've benefitted from taking you for some see yeah so that's an interesting thing that you bought up recently is that maybe you have some problem that's stopping you from sleeping and then you take another thing that makes that first problem worse and maybe introduces another problem but the net effect is still positive and so your sleep does get better yeah ok that makes sense where do we talk about here meditation we won't really deal with that I mean we all agree that it's a good thing we probably don't do it enough people that need it the most please we've had Sam Harris on and and Dan Harris especially and I fact I went to the Sam Harris and Dan Harris event recently and I suspect that Sam believes that Dan isn't really meditating that's what I end up getting from the event I said have I said Dan attacks afterward just kind of rib him but but I think it's just we need different words like with Sam thinks it was about a meditation is you know after he spent you know seven years in India and caves basically he learned how to meditate kind of thing I'm exaggerating being a bit hyperbolic but he's gone on three month meditation silent meditation retreats and yeah yeah which by the way it was and he's worn some people against that like you could have a serious mental breakdown too and he acknowledges that you want to dip your toe in the water before jumping all the way and realizing you can't swim and and Dan's prescription is that one minute is meditating like if you can it's better than zero minutes right and I think I think they're just suited for things there's almost like deep meditation and then there's like the beginners meditation and yeah yeah yeah I'm stuck on day ten by the way you do a great job narrating it Andy put acum is quite fantastic on headspace isn't his voice is perfect yeah it really is it's very soothing although sam harris has his new app it's in it's in beta right now and he's been spending years on us I'm interested to see what he does listening to him interview Michael Pollan and I enjoy yeah book itself actually okay so if you're talking you mentioned psilocybin briefly so Michael Pollan's new book how to change your mind about the rattle the history the history of psychedelics it's actually really interesting in the the neuroscience behind how they affect the brain is really interesting and it's it's got very little to do so they used to be called psychosomatic switch basically mimicking psychosis that's what people thought originally but actually has very little to do with that and what it what they what they seem to do is switch off something called the default mode Network which is basically your continuous thought processes ego all that kind of stuff and that and when you put people in the MRI to look at this those parts of the brain since you just get turned off so people are kind of shutting down the processes associated with yeah so ego self comparison and anxiety all that kind of stuff and then when it comes back on when it comes back online if there's been a therapist involved they sort of like guided you through it actually you can you can affect a lot of those sort of mental health issues by using this as part of like a therapeutic process so it's really very interesting yeah and for those of you were ill-informed or uninformed I should say we're talk about magic mushrooms basically LSD has the same effect DMT from ayahuasca as a scimitar has a similar effect they will have that same effect on on that part of the brain right right and and the Michael Pollan talks about you know the the if you do have some sort of risk in your family of like schizophrenia or something then you know just just be careful with that if you're gonna do it you should I mean if you're gonna do it for a for a mental health reason and there is you know for posttraumatic stress or some of some other the used it for alcoholism and all these other things but it requires a therapeutic relationship with a therapist who's there at the time it's a guided process it's not just you at home on the couch dropping some acid times I didn't get that far through the book before I got bored of it well I mean so I'm like what am I supposed to do with this information is it like I can go onto the internet right now and order this thing and do it anywhere because you can order it is illegal unless you're in that right so what you have to develop a relationship with some kind of physician you can prescribe it I think what the well yes but the humanely it's mainly in a research setting right is that I think the the idea is that the book is before that this is you know LSD has this whole kind of torrid history particularly in the US and the book is trying to teach us that it's maybe not what we thought it was and it has these effects on the brain that can be beneficial in the right setting and is trying to de demonize right this is a baby boomer problem though know any young people younger than 50 years old that have that demonization of the drug Drizzt well that's well I mean if it's been for the rest of us it's been illegal for as long as we've been alive so yeah I know that's that's I think that's part the probable you're right I mean it's the baby boomers who saw Timothy Leary and all that kind of stuff with LSD back in the 70s you know that's that's a big part of the issue but I think that and Bing and Michael Pollan is one of those guys yeah writing he's potentially rising from the instruction manual on how to change your mind yeah but also it seems to be that these may be one of the big concerns from the pharmaceutical perspective and I'm not a conspiracy guy thinks big trying to you know plot against us but they do have a profit motive and and it would make sense to keep those to keep drugs that are not patentable illegal so that my patent drugs can continue to serve people if if there are are ways to treat depression and the the biggest thing that was I don't know if the stat is exactly right but it helped eighty-five percent of people quit smoking I for one one dose of psilocybin not only but then they tried to this is an interesting part of history so that's yes in the hands of certain therapists and scientists right in the right setting so then when they tried to repeat those with a more rigorous control setting and they basically gave you know gave people the drug and then lock them in a white room by themselves and surprisingly those guys didn't react work very well to that so you so it requires the right setting and requires a therapist so that's the thing is in the right setting apparently you know and again I don't want to sound like I'm some big poster child for this I'm just reading the book and I'm enjoying a sign I'm enjoying the science in the history but you know so in that if the setting is right and the Theret and the therapy is right then it does seem to have benefit but you can do it very wrong and then it can have negative effects yeah absolutely and so so I think that's that's the big caveat but there also seems to be a lot of promising research here and the thing the same Harris talks about is there's sort of shortcut toward meditation right I mean in an understanding yeah so you can get the same effect from holotropic breathwork or meditation or like all of those things can help you switch off those same parts of the brain and so you don't you don't have to be taking drugs to do it right right it's just much more rigorous process right yeah but it is it's totally possible I think in the sauna sometimes like when I go back and forth between a hot sauna and a cold plunge I feel totally euphoric in a way that way I suppose I could replicate with with alcohol or marijuana but this is a more natural way to do it right so yeah I just something about what else do we have here introversion versus extraversion I don't know why I wrote that down but um it's probably a good place to I mean so that's one thing that that change for me certainly I was this back-office programmer that used to get I mean success for me look like not making eye contact with people you know locks away in the back office somewhere and then I started a business got married had two kids now decided to pop cast all this stuff that seems quite extroverted and it certainly wasn't part of my character before I went through this process so I don't know like can all this stuff change that this seems to be my experience whether it work for someone else I'm not quite so sure but it's interesting to think about the opposite story actually so I worked in the corporate world I was essentially a manage hundreds of people and so I was around people all day every day from the time I woke up but get my blackberry and I'd start responding to emails and I'd hurry up and go into the office and I'm around people all day leading and coaching and meetings and blah blah blah and customers and I'm just around all these people all day and I didn't realize how burned out I was that one of my favorite novels is a book called freedom by Jonathan Franzen and there's a line in there and he talks about the unquenchable thirst of solitude and and that resonates so much with me now like I've set up my life in a way that I do spend at least 80% of my time alone and it really fuels me in a way that I didn't realize I didn't realize like I wasn't getting that fuel and so I was just I was a non-optimal version of myself a hundred percent of the time because I was always around people and so those interactions at best were 30 40 % of what they could have been so I don't know if there's any any data that you all want to talk about with respect to introversion or extroversion but health perspective how many how big would you or tribe have been how many people would you've seen on the average day would it be 40 50 I don't yeah like 40 seems like a more reasonable number yeah so so but I find that I'm a much better version of myself I can be at the 70 80 90 100 % version of myself when I'm around fewer people and Ryan and I did a recent episode talking about the the different types of relationships our lives and and he's an excuse the exact opposite extreme extrovert I've never seen him alone and and he but he has a lot of sort of the secondary relationships that I don't have so we we look at these these I look at relationships as we have three different types of relation we have this sort of primary relationship that use your closest family and friends you know you can usually count on one hand two hands if you're Catholic but the closest people in your life usually fits on one hand and then you yeah the the next layer of the concentric circles you have these the secondary layer of friends and and these are like people you consider close friends and family extended family people you work right next to and and I find the extroverts have a lot more people on that second the second ring and then you have that third the the peripheral ring or the the tertiary relationships the acquaintances the coworkers the the friends that you see some of my closest friends I talked to once or twice a year but they're the most meaningful conversations I have in my entire life likely because we only talk once or twice a year I go back to Dayton Ohio three times a year usually and and when I do that I I find that that though I sit down with the people that I that are closest to me and I make time for them we have these great conversations and it's like we never left but if I had to see them every single day I don't think our interactions would be as meaningful I think with Ryan they probably would be though like every every day he would just find something meaningful out of but it would drain me so he's probably just found a better answer to the question so what do you do yeah I could imagine being you like people ask you what do you do well I grind you down it does man I and I I've I now like I I don't wanna come off as pretentious I've tried to think of like just really weird things that I can say to people till I get them to go away but I find what I really want to like rip someone I'm like what do you mean by that question like do you mean like what's my job title how much money do I earn so you can compare you to me on the socio-economic ladder yeah and so yeah I think quite often we do mean like what's your job title and I think that's just a dangerous question to ask you to because then we get rapped with this whole identity of like this is who I am as a person I'm the Director of Operations and you can't pry that from my hands and then when you do when I get laid off my life's over because you've just you didn't lay me off you removed my identity from me and that happens with the third BMW it happens with the veganism it happens with the carnivore diet what do you do I'm paleo what what does that mean yeah eight days a week my back hurts no I am all right well let's uh let me see here I usually do something called added value say when we talk about things that have added value to our lives recently and since Ryan isn't here I'm just gonna talk about your podcast I think you guys do a great job of taking things that are outside of the the the the world of just medical terms and jargon and I'm terrified to even dip my toe in that water because it's gonna be too hot or too cold for me and you distilled down to a way where it's like explaining how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and I feel like it's it's digestible for me and then that when I know like like I can digest something then I it often raises more questions and then I'll go in a different direction so I'll encourage people we're listening or watching this to just check out the nourish balance thrive podcast and if you're interesting working with these guys at all just seeing more about them just go to nourish balance thrive calm we'll put a link to that in the show notes as well and just so quick follow-up on right here right now it's a segment we do we talk about what's going on in the lives of the minimalist my birthday is this week I'm turning 37 years old and I want you all to get me a birthday gift legitimately want a birthday gift from you so I'm from data on that with like two million things I think these specific about my about my gift then thank you so so I'm from Dayton Ohio and second hungriest city in the United States for families and West Dayton which I didn't grow up in West Dayton but I grew up in Dayton and it's the overdose capital of America we have a lot of problems there the opioid epidemic is serious but there's also another crisis there so I think the second largest food desert in the entire country is West Dayton as there is not a single grocery store there's a million people in in the greater Dayton area a couple hundred thousand in the city proper and the west side half the city there is not a single grocery store since Kroger closed in 2009 and so there's access to to food if you go to the local liquor store you can buy Cheetos but you can't buy nutrients you can't buy a nutrition there's not a single grocery store and so Ryan and I have a really ambitious objective we want to build helped build a grocery store food co-op in Dayton Ohio next year and so we're trying to raise some money and we've partnered up with there is a place called the Jim City Market and they don't exist yet but we're trying to raise funds for them so we're going to try and raise a hundred thousand dollars over the next two months and Ryan and I are going to donate a significant chunk of our own money to try to make this happen but we need your help so if you'd be willing to donate thirty seven dollars from my 37th birthday that would be the best gift you could give me but it's also gonna help provide not just food because I think having food access to food is really important you all know this but also the education I I didn't know that for me like there were certain foods that were really bad for me I just thought you know I thought potato well it's a vegetable I might as well just eat all of them right potatoes aren't inherently bad but they're better than Cheetos but how about kale and an arugula and so we're also we're gonna provide education with this place and so providing the access to food the education about food so the people can make the right food choices and have food to feed their families it's something that we want to do so we'll put a link in the show notes we can go to on my birthday June 29th is my birthday by the way just go to the minimalists comm slash Dayton in fact you can do that today they'll take you right to the page where you can donate if you donate thirty seven dollars for our birthday you'll help help us with with this coop that we're trying to build if you donate ninety bucks that will give one family a lifetime membership to the coop so that's another way to help or you can donate however much you want to us we've done a few things in the past where people want to donate more than that we by all means we welcome if you want to give some money help us feed some people who I mean this is I mean it's in our backyard eyes for the first 31 years of my life and in Dayton Ohio and I can tell you that we have a lot of problems there and one is man there just isn't access to to good food so hopefully you all will be willing to help out with that the minimalists comm slash Dayton for details also Ryan and I are going on tour were three cities Birmingham and Louisville Kentucky and then we'll be in Nashville Tennessee we're doing talking about money and minimalism it's called the simply southern tour and you can find all the details at our website the minimalists calm that's July mid July I think it's a twentieth 22nd and 24th we're gonna have Chris Hogan and Rachel Cruz and Anthony O'Neill with us talking about money and minimalism so bring your questions with you it's gonna be different from any other event we've ever done and I think that's one that one of the thing on YouTube I've been doing something called living room conversations so little everyday in my living room I just turn on my phone and I answer one question someone asks a question and I've gotten some of the best responses from just these quick videos impromptu I don't have anything prepared someone just asked question I answer one question it's three minutes five minutes and that's why we start a video version of the podcast too because a lot of people are finding value and in the video creation so if you want to check those out one question today over YouTube slash the minimalists alright that's all I have besides these voicemail comments and tips from our listeners hi my name is Sabrina I'm from Brooklyn and I was just listening to your podcast about food one thing I encourage people to do when they go to the farmers market in order to save money is to ask the farmers for a second choice produce it's the stuff that's a little bit bruised or it's not quite as pretty and they usually sell it for a quite a steep discounts so often times I can get tomatoes that are originally six dollars a pound for two dollars a pound so people are looking to budget or to save money on food especially organic local food I encourage you to ask for the less beautiful produce this is Joe from Dallas and this was a comment for some parents who have trouble with all the things that their kids have and don't necessarily want to throw away their children's things without permission from their children's they're talking to their kids about it we had a playroom that was exploding with toys and what we did was we adapted the minimalism game for our kids and so we asked him what motivated them and they talked about getting new toys so we decided we were going to let him do it for a month and for every number that they got to on their game we would give them $10 at the end of the month to spend so the first way they got rid of they got $10 and then to get to number two they give away two toys and they'd be at $20 and then three toys and so that'd be six total and maybe at 30 just like the minimalism game but we didn't go buy days we just let him go as the months went on I underestimated my children they each got to 13 toys which was over ninety and really over a hundred because they got through they got rid of some collections of toys like plastic dinosaur collection would be one toy and so I owed them two hundred and sixty dollars to go on a shopping spree and instead of buying 13 toys each they they pooled their money and they bought three toys that they really wanted and so I traded in 200 toys for three toys and in one month we really got rid of a big chunk of that playroom and on a whim after we went on our shopping spree for the three items I threw 91 smiley faces on a napkin to show my daughter and I said this is how many kids that you made happy this month and for those that are worried about consumerism or or teaching their kids that you know the the reward for doing well is to go on a shopping spree when they had a playdate a few days later and they brought their friends to their playroom it wasn't the new toys that they went to they had kept the napkin and they showed their friends that you know they were so proud of how many kids that they had made happy this month panda we've had it continue to go for the last couple of months and we have drastically reduced the amount of toys that we have in the house and the kids have toys that they really really wanted and that they they were invested in because they got to choose them themselves I hope this helps some families out there it's been very helpful for us a minimalist my name is Emma calling from Mammoth Lakes California I recently listened to your episode on social media and I had a great tip for people who are looking to cut back their use of social media whether it be for time spent using it or if just the fact that getting caught up with social media is taken away from the other things in their life that are bringing them value one thing I have done to cut back my use of social media is gone to my settings of my phone and turned off cellular use data for certain apps so for example if I want to cut back my time spent on Facebook I can go to my cellular youth area of my settings and turn off cellular data for that app meaning I can only access that app if I'm attacked if I'm connected to internet and I've done this for most of my social media app just because it cuts back how much I use them and allows me to a save some of my data because I don't like going over and having to spend more money but also just not using that as much as I used to all right so that's almost it for this episode I want to thank you both for being here today Chris Tommy I this is one of the best conversation we've ever had in this podcast mainly because Ryan wasn't here but you are a wealth of knowledge I'm grateful to you decided to come in today and spend this time with me I know folks will get immense value from this whether they watched it on YouTube or or they just listened to the the podcast but I'm really grateful you decide to spend this time with us thank you so much likewise yeah thank you for having us and thank you for being such a fantastic client and yeah Tommy he is a wealth of knowledge and I've not really met anyone that can integrate all of the things out there like quite like you can in such an unbiased way so yeah super glad to be here and have the opportunity thank you thank you and if if you'll have a question for the minimalist give us a call or a comment for the end of the episodes four zero six two one nine seven eight three nine you can also email a voice memo right from your phone to podcast at the minimalists comm if you all live here with just one message we hope it's this love people and use things because the opposite never works thanks for listen y'all we'll see you next time and minimalists [Laughter]

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25 thoughts on “Healthproblems

  1. Is soy allergy always the root of scalp acne? I have just recently developed this and am trying to figure out a cause.

  2. I had to wait until I went on a road trip to listen to this episode. I found it exceptional! Thanks for sharing the details of your own health challenges and your path to healing. I appreciated both guests and felt they were very articulate. Love the accents too! Lots of useful information in here!

  3. Fewer antibiotics got it. Animal agriculture filled with antibiotics. Confused by this contradiction.

  4. I came across a video of a dr discussing a study that compared heart disease to sleep times. It showed an increase in disease with fewer than 7 hours of sleep and the curve went up again right after 7, suggesting that 7 is the magic number. Less leads to more heart disease as does more. Maybe something else is going on but people who got eight hours had heart disease at greater rates than those who got 7. So I shoot for 7

  5. Lucky you! It cost $21,000 for me to have all the amalgam removed from my mouth back in the early 90's. The price will depend on how much dental work you've already had done. Luckily, four of my crowns were paid for by my dental insurance.

  6. Great podcast.
    About back pain, I can’t hear correctly what kind of physical therapy Joshua tried? Can someone help.

    I have quite strong chronic lower back pain, could use any tips.
    Thank you.

  7. You're lucky the soy only did that to you… the old timers say "don't eat that soy, it'll make your dick fall off…"

  8. The whole health problems are connected part hits home. I have a lot of mental health issues and I can definitely attest to them being linked to my physical health problems. We shouldn't really even differentiate mental and physical health as two different 'things'.

  9. It's taken all day, but I'm finally getting through this one! #LongestEver Great stuff Josh & NBT Team.

  10. The bit about phone use is spot on. I have been more mindful of my phone use around others. Especially when engaged in conversation I actually turn it off or to silent to give full attention. Also, the mention of waiting in line or just on a walk. Put away the screen and enjoy the scene man.

  11. I had extremely similar symptoms a year ago at age 29. I didn't have the memory loss or back pain, but everything else along with severe urinary issues that felt like UTI pain, dizziness and anxiety. You're right. It was terrifying and doctors do look at things in such an isolated way. Thankfully, once I took things back to the basics, everything got 100% better. All of it disappeared. I cut out ALL medicine that I was using to mask symptoms (uricalm, ibuprofen, pepto), ate a balanced diet (didn't go plant-based), temporarily cut out all alcohol and caffeine, started working out, sleeping well, managing stress and that did the trick. I also lost 50 pounds and got back to my healthy weight. I like your quote, "Just because it wasn't unhealthy, doesn't mean it was healthy."

  12. I strongly recommend looking into functional patterns training if you are in pain. Search Ashley Kramer Functional Patterns for a good testimony.

  13. Thank you for discussing health. I have had very similar issues and it is so nice to hear someone else's story.

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