Healthy Foods that Can Actually Harm You with Guest Dr. Steven Gundry

Healthy Foods that Can Actually Harm You with Guest Dr. Steven Gundry


(groovy music) – Hey, welcome back to The Urban Monk, Doctor Pedram Shojai,
hanging out in-studio. Lots of things hitting the news lately about medicines that we could
take that might possibly be increasing our chance of heart disease, whether it’s Advil, asprin, all that. So it is happening right now,
it is trending in the news and my guest today is
Doctor Steven Gundry, who is a medical doctor, a heart surgeon, who is predominantly talking
about how you can avoid chronic diseases, and
he’s doing a lot of work with autoimmune disease right now in his clinical practices in Palm Springs, in Santa Barbara, California. He’s one of these go-to guys, who knows what he’s talking about and is talking some real sense
out there, so I’m happy to have him on the show, Doc, welcome. – Hey, thanks for having me, pleasure. – Yeah, thanks for doing
the work that you do. There’s a lot of work to
be done in heart surgery, but I think the bigger work is in preventing heart surgery, right? – Yeah, I absolutely agree. That’s why I pretty much resigned as chairman and
professor of cardiothoracic surgery at Loma Linda University 17 years ago, when I found
I could reverse people’s heart disease by teaching them how to eat. That was a bad day for me, because you can make a lot of
money as a heart surgeon, and not so much in
teaching people how to eat, but it was the best day
that ever happened to me. – [Pedram] Yeah. – ‘Cause I could watch people
take control of their health. – Yeah, what an
inconvenient pay cut, right? Doing the right thing. (both chuckling) Yeah, it’s tough, it’s tough. The money is in sick care,
the money is in interventions. Big interventions,
expensive interventions. Talking about eating plants
and, you know, going for walks and all the stuff that
doesn’t cost any money. That’s not the most popular
message, but it should be. – Yeah, you know it’s interesting. A few years ago, I was consulted by several businesses in the
Michigan area, a very large city, and they wanted me to come
in and teach their employees how to eat, then I said, well, you’ve got a very
famous medical center there in town, it’s a university, and why don’t you work with them? They said, yeah, we’ve
gone and met with them and their response was, look, we’re
in the sick care business. And being in the healthcare
business, even though it says health sciences university, is exactly opposite of
what our mission is. And if we work with you,
then we lose business. And this is a true
story, so unfortunately, that’s how we’re structured. – Yeah. I remember, in my 20s, getting to sit
at the table with a bunch of hospital CEOs and I asked
the guy how he was doing, and he said, terrible. I need it to rain or
something around here, I need some people to fall off the roof, ’cause business is slow. And it basically shuddered
me to realize that we would be wishing ill
will upon humanity to keep the business of health care alive. So there is a real paradigm shift that we’re standing in right now. And we understand a lot of
things that we didn’t then, and you’re out there, you’ve
got a book, I think I saw you on the New York Times
Bestseller List, yes? – Yeah, just landed on the
New York Times Bestseller, number 2 in the nation, The Plant Paradox, yeah.
– Good for you, good for you. The Plant Paradox just
came out, you’ve got Doctor Oz, you’ve got
Terry Wahls, who I know, Tony Robbins, you’ve got
some good endorsements so you’ve been around the block and people are paying attention
to what you’re saying, which is fantastic. One of the things that
you’re doing with your work that’s interesting to
me, is really calling out some of these supposed healthy foods. ‘Cause I think a lot of people
go through the halfway house of the crappy stuff before
they end up realizing what they should actually be eating. So I would love to get into that. – Yeah, so one of the things
that got me very interested, I had a major at Yale
University as an undergraduate in human evolutionary biology. Where I basically defended
a thesis that you could manipulate a great ape’s
food supply, change his environment, and predict
you’d end up with a human. And I actually got an
honors for my thesis and long story short, when I
started doing this, I actually went back to my original
research to investigate foods that we were actually
evolutionary adapted to. And one of the things that’s
really happened to us, really in the last 10,000
years, and more importantly in the last 500 years is the foods that we’re adapted to and our genetic adaptation, and
more importantly the microbiome, the bugs that live in
our gut are adapted to. We come from tree-living animals and we ate leaves and we ate a lot of tubers. Quite frankly, we ate a lot of shellfish, but that’s a whole different story. We’re not designed to eat
grasses or the grains of grasses, we’re not designed to eat beans, they’re lethal unless they’re cooked
properly, as are grains. Rats are designed to eat
these things, grazing animals are designed to eat these things, and they have a completely
different stomach system and a completely different
microbiome system. So what I found was that if
we eliminate modern foods, many of which are considered healthy, that we can actually
restore the functioning and communication between the
gut and the rest of our cells. So 10,000 years ago, none
of us ate grains or beans, those are two of the biggest lethal things in our modern diet, but one of the fascinating things is we forget that all of us, in America, are not from America. We’re from Europe, we’re from
Asia, and we’re from Africa. So that means none of us were exposed to an American plant until 500 years ago, when Columbus started trade. And getting to know a new
lectin, a protein in plants, the plants defend themselves and 500 years is like speed dating in evolution. I kind of laugh at some
of my paleo colleagues who think that our African
ancestors ate tomatoes. Tomatoes are an American
nightshade and none of us ate a tomato until 500 years ago. In fact, the nightshade
family, potatoes, eggplant, tomatoes, peppers, and gogi berries are modern foods. Traditional cultures
have dealt with these, the Italians and French peel
and de-seed their tomatoes, because the peels and the
seeds have the lectins. The Southwest American Indians, actually, roast their chilies, peel
them and then de-seed them before they grind them into chili powder or eat them as chilies. One of the things I ask my
patients to do is open a can of green chilies and look
for the peels and seeds. And they’ll notice they’re gone. Because traditional cultures have known how to deal with the
lectins in these plants. The squash family are American plants. Cucumber, zucchinis, pumpkins. And the peels and seeds
have a lot of lectin. Sunflower seeds are a real mischief maker, they’re an American plant, pumpkin seeds are a mischief maker. Chia seeds, my good friend
Loren Cordain sent me a few papers a couple years ago
showing that chia seeds promote inflammation in humans. And our perennial favorites,
peanuts, and cashews. These, of course, are
not nuts, they’re beans. They’re in the legume family. And 94% of humans carry a preformed antibody to the lectins in peanuts. In fact, as a heart surgeon,
one of the best ways to produce heart disease,
in a Reese’s monkey, our cousin, is to give them peanut oil and the lectin in the peanut
oil causes heart disease. If you take the lectin
out of the peanut oil, and give the Reese’s monkey
his peanut oil without lectin they don’t get heart disease. And the other thing I like
to get on my high horse about is whole grains. I know gluten is a big fad right now, and I take care of a lot of
people who have celiac disease, but most people who think
they are reacting to gluten are actually reacting
to a much nastier lectin called wheat germ agglutinin, and it’s abbreviated WGA. The other best way to
produce heart disease in an animal model, is to give
them wheat germ agglutinin. So wheat germ produces heart disease. And “It’s so healthy.” and it’s no wonder that for 10,000 years we’ve been trying to make bread white and only the poor people
got the brown bread. And it’s no wonder that 4 billion people who use rice as their staple go to the trouble of eating white rice, taking the hull off of the brown rice. It’s because, traditionally,
we’ve been getting rid of the hulls on seeds, which contain the most of the lectins. So that’s what I do. – So going back to, this is fascinating, because it’s wrapping
around this paleo argument with a lot more intelligence. When we started to realize this, so let’s just say, the
Hopi Indians start peeling their peppers and de-seeding them, how do they know this traditionally? I mean, it’s getting passed down, are they watching
anecdotally, are they watching for symptoms in people? How is this passed down
in that kind of lineage? – I think it was passed down in stories and I think people noticed
what was happening to them. For instance, 10,000 years ago, at
the dawn of agriculture, the average human stood 6
feet tall, men and women. And our brain was actually
15% bigger than it is today, and everybody says, whaaa, wait a minute we were little bitty people and now we’re getting bigger, well in fact, that’s not true,
from the skeletal evidence. What happened at the dawn of
agriculture, is that we shrunk about a foot and a half in 2,000 years from eating grains and beans. And it’s really only been
in the last 100 years, that we’ve had this
tremendous growth spurt. In fact, traditional Asians,
up until the last generation, have been very small, because Asians traditionally
eat a much higher plant-based diet than Western Europeans. The plant compounds have
actually stunted their growth. – [Pedram] Interesting. – Yeah. – So white rice, brown rice,
just being one of those in the family, but you’re
talking about plant compounds that are newer, the 500
years or newer ones, the lectins that we have
less ability to process, or stuff that kinda
crosses over into both? – Yeah, it crosses over into both, but the idea that an Italian would eat whole
wheat pasta is just a travesty. They’ve been throwing the
hull away for as long as they’ve been using wheat. Same way with the French, the French don’t eat whole wheat baguettes,
they eat white baguettes. They don’t eat whole wheat croissants, they eat white bread croissants. It’s because, I think,
cultures have figured out that when they eat the whole
grain or these other things, they feel worse. I mean, for instance, the
Italians refused to eat peppers, I mean, not peppers,
tomatoes for 200 years after their native son brought them back. Because they thought they were toxic, and they were actually right. – [Pedram] They were right, yeah. – My mother, my mother’s
mother was French, and my grandmother taught
my mother to always peel and de-seed tomatoes
before she sliced them. It actually wasn’t until
I went away to Yale that I ever had a sliced
tomato with peels and seeds and I thought it was the oddest
thing that I’ve ever seen. – And by the time you’re old
enough to recognize that, who knows whether or not it’s the bills you’re worrying about, the
hangover from last weekend, or whatever that’s making
you feel a little off, right? It’s subtle. – Yeah, these are very subtle things. Although, in my book, I
talk about a group of people who I call my canaries,
who really, minute exposure to lectin containing compounds
or foods sets them off. Whether it’s with asthma,
whether it’s with migraines. I’ll give you a wonderful
example of a lady who’s in the book, who’s
originally from Lima, Peru, and she moved to LA when she was 40, for a job. And she decided to continue
to try to eat her traditional Peruvian diet, which
contained a lot of quinoa, and she did and she got really horrible IBS. And a friend of a friend sent
her out to me in Palm Springs and I started to talk to her about quinoa, about how the Incas had
detoxification processes to get the lectins out of
quinoa, how they fermented it. And her eyes got really wide and she says, oh my gosh, my mother told
me you can’t eat quinoa without pressure cooking it, first, because it’s so toxic. And I didn’t believe her, I thought it was an old wives’ tale, so when I came to LA, I’ve
been eating quinoa just cooked. And my mother actually
arrived three weeks ago and bought me a pressure cooker and said, you stupid girl, didn’t
you learn anything? So she said, my mother was right. And I said, call me in
a month and let me know, and she did and sure enough, once she started pressure
cooking her quinoa, all of her symptoms went away. – Amazing, amazing. Your book is called the Plant Paradox, which is perfect because
there is so much advice that we’ve been given
about quinoa, amaranth, all these ancient grains. I mean, the older the sexier, right? So you take the baby with the bathwater and you have no idea
what’s happening here. – That’s exactly right, you know there are a couple of grains,
speaking of ancient grains, almost all grains have hulls and the hull actually contains the lectin. And it’s the defense system of the plant to protect its babies from being eaten. And millet and sorgum don’t have hulls, so in my book, if you’re gonna eat grains, millet and sorgum are your go to grains. – What about downstream, like white rice or something like that, is
white rice, is it clear? – White rice, if you’re going
to eat a traditional grain, it’s by far the safest, but
what I do is I ask people to get white basmati
rice from India, yeah. And it’s actually the
highest resistant starch of the rices, and then
cook it and then cool it. Put it in the refrigerator
and then reheat it. And just the process of cooling it really activates the resistant starch of white rice even better. – Interesting, interesting. So you’re having people have
to unlearn a lot of things that they thought they knew,
which is never an easy job. – No.
– No. But I’m assuming the real
sword that you have here that you draw and charge
with is the fact that they run on faith, they
listen to you for a minute, and all of a sudden they’re
feeling a hell of a lot better, so you’ve got their attention. – Yeah, not only that, but when I started my practice,
I had the luxury of having some relationships with
some very sophisticated labs that I used when I was a
university researcher on transplant immunology,
so every three months we send a host of labs up to the Bay Area, to Richmond in Virginia, to Texas. And we can look at inflammatory cytokines and we can look at other
markers of inflammation and it’s shocking that about 25% of people who just visit me for
any particular reason, have markers of lectin
intolerance and I’ve published this data, I presented it at the
American Heart Association. And if we take these foods away from them, we can actually show them in their labs that all these markers of inflammation and of inflammatory
cytokines have completely dropped to normal. And then I’ve also written a
paper where we’ve reintroduced these foods to people,
either on purpose or quite by accident and their
inflammation markers go up. So there’s actually deep
published science behind this, it’s not just feeling
better, although that’s the obvious consequence. – Sure as hell helps. So let’s talk about this gluten thing, I mean, there’s all sorts of
sophisticated lab analysis now. They’re looking at all the
different kind of gluten-like compounds, and just going down this gluten track, trying to figure out
which of the gluten family people are allergic to. So you’re saying that, in your experience, it’s oftentimes the lectins. And what’s the difference
for the leyperson? Gluten, lectin, what is this stuff? – So gluten is a lectin. It’s actually a minor lectin. Gluten, interestingly enough, is contained in the endosperm of
wheat, rye, and barley. And in almost all my
patients who go gluten free and are eating oats, they’re
getting gluten in their oats even if they’re certified gluten free, because there’s a
cross-reacting lectin in oats. The key about gluten is, on the endosperm, it’s in the inside. The hull is the major
protective part of the grain. And so plants actually invest
most of their firepower in the hull. And that’s where, for instance,
wheat germ agglutinin is. And what I’ve found, I
definitely have people who carry the HLA markers for celiac disease, and I have a number of
people with celiac disease. But most of the people I
see with celiac disease have been gluten free, and
yet all of their inflammation markers are still very high. And there’s a beautiful, actually
there’s several beautiful papers of taking celiac patients, having them gluten free for two years, and biopsying their small bowel again and 83% of these people still have celiac by intestinal biopsy, two
years after going gluten free. And that’s because most gluten free foods are actually full of more
mischievous lectins than gluten is and I think that’s been
a fundamental mistake in all of this gluten free interest. – [Pedram] Fascinating. – Yeah, the other thing
I talk about in the book, we actually have bacteria
that enjoy eating gluten. They digest gluten. But if you go gluten free, these bacteria leave,
they have nothing to eat. And so they actually leave our intestines. And then when you re-eat gluten,
expose yourself to gluten, you actually have no defense
system against gluten. The other thing I try to
get people to realize is there are traditional
cultures that eat pure gluten. The Indonesians, their
protein of choice is setan, which is pure vital gluten. And of course the
French, and the Italians, and most Europeans eat
large amounts of gluten in their white bread and white pasta. But they don’t have
that much gluten issues, because, two reasons, number one, they have gluten-eating bacteria, and number two they don’t have Round-Up sprayed on their foods. And I go into, in quite detail, how Round-Up glyphosates actually potentiates gluten sensitivity. That’s been one of the big changes, I have a number of people in the book who, we’ve gotten all cleared up
of their autoimmune disease or their IBS, and they go home to their native land, I’ll use an example, a
woman in Eastern Europe, she was able to eat the breads
there without any problems, she was able to eat yogurts there from what are called A-2 cows. And she thought she was cured. And she came back and began eating the same things in America and immediately her IBS returned, her
autoimmune disease returned, and when we took the American equivalent of what she was eating away
from her, she was fine. So now she eats her traditional foods when she’s in Eastern Europe, but she doesn’t come near them when she’s in the United States, because our food supply has been so poisoned by what we’ve done. – Brought to you by the
people that made Agent Orange. Yeah, glyphosate is a big deal and I was just on a phone call
yesterday, actually, with a group that’s doing a
bunch of research into this. And there’s very few labs
that even test accurately for glyphosate levels, so
it’s really even hard to know how much your exposure is,
there was that Swedish study that was kind of fun that came out, the family that just
ate organic for a week and they looked at all their
toxins, which was interesting. But we’re just not even geared
up to know how bad it is, in most people. – Right, in fact there’s a
study, just recently released on California wines, and there’s actually remarkable
amounts of glyphosate in California wines. And even some of the organic
wines have glyphosate in ’em, which shows how it
spreads from one vineyard where it’s sprayed and happens
into an organic vineyard. – [Pedram] God damn it. – It’s a huge problem.
(both chuckling) It’s a huge problem. – God damn it. Okay, so here we are,
we’re better dressed apes who used to eat tree leaves and the such, and so you’re telling me now
tomatoes are off the menu, quinoa you’ve gotta put
a bunch of work into, rice you gotta cool down. The first kind of question
comes up for people, is okay, Doc, what the hell do I eat? How do I live now? – So you’re designed to
eat leaves and a lot of fat and quite frankly the only purpose of food is to get olive oil into your mouth. (Pedram chuckling) If you look at the Spanish studies, studies of Sardinia and Crete, these people consume a
liter of olive oil per week. To give your listeners an idea, that’s 12 tablespoons a day, and a beautiful Spanish study released last year looking
at 65 year old people, the punchline is the people
who used the liter of olive oil per week after five
years had better memory than people eating a
lowfat Mediterranean diet. And the women in that group
had a 67% less incidence of breast cancer than the
lowfat Mediterranean diet. So have a lot of olive oil. Eat a lot of leaves, eat
tubers, we’re designed to eat roots, things like sweet potatoes, things like jicama, things
like turnips, rutabagas. the more root vegetables
you eat, the better, these are resistant starches
that your gut bugs love. Use jicama to dip with guacamole, Believe it or not, true guacamole
does not have any tomatoes in it, and Trader Joe’s
makes one, Costco has one called Wholly Guacamole,
which i mentioned in the book. So there’s a lot of options for that. the other thing is, a
pressure cooker makes destruction of all lectins
except for the gluten molecule. A pressure cooker cannot
destroy the gluten molecule. But it’ll destroy the lectins
in beans, it’ll destroy the lectins in tomatoes
and peppers and eggplant. The modern pressure cooker is not your grandmother’s pressure cooker that exploded and filled the kitchen. It’s a one touch device,
it’s just like a rice cooker and the amazing thing is, pressure cookers make anything so fast. I mean, you can have a wonderful plate of lentils
that you pour olive oil over in about seven minutes
in a pressure cooker. – Unbelievable, no
soaking, no nothing needed. – no soaking, no nothing. Bam, lectins are destroyed. – So what happens with
denatured, destructed lectins? Is that a problem, or
can we just assimilate it once they’re broken up? – Yeah, once they’re broken down. Lectins are very large proteins, they normally, actually,
are kept out of our system by our intact intestinal wall, but coming back to your lead
story that you led in with. Our intestinal wall is
normally, as you know, one cell thick and these cells are bound
together by what are called tight junctions. And the surface area of our
intestines is the equivalent of a tennis court. And so when people are
gonna watch the French open or Wimbledon in a few weeks,
imagine a tennis court that’s inside every one of
us and there is only one cell separating us from everything we swallow. so lectins are so big that
they can’t be absorbed, but what lectins do is actually pry open these tight junctions and then not only do lectins go through, but also they are accompanied by
the other evil empire, which are pieces of
bacteria that are called liopolysaccharides, they
are abbreviated LPS. And I don’t swear, but in
my book, I can’t help but calling them little pieces of shit. (Pedram quietly chuckling) Because that’s actually what they are. When these guys get into our bloodstream, our immune system actually thinks we’re under attack by bacteria and we actually thicken our blood and we actually attack the
surface of our blood vessels because lectins actually
attach to our blood vessels and incite inflammation. In fact, I’m convinced that
most heart disease comes from lectins doing this,
and if you swallow an Advil, or you swallow an Aleve for pain, you should know that even
a few days of doing this has now been proven in the
British Medical Journal, published two days ago,
that you increase your risk of a heart attack by 30
to 50% just by taking Aleve or Advil for three
to four days for pain. And it’s because, we didn’t
know it, but drug companies knew that Aleve or Advil is like
swallowing a hand grenade. And it blows giant holes
in the wall of your gut. And lectins and these
little pieces of shit go right on through. Drug companies knew
this, we didn’t know it because our gastroscopes
didn’t go far enough to see the damage they were doing and it was only until
we had the pill cameras that we realized what
was actually happening. – Oh my goodness. So once this happens, all
of a sudden you have this barrier and the immune
system is attacking, do you get some of the same stuff with the lectins, with
autoimmunity and these challenges with the immune systems saying, okay, is this friend or foe, and then creating antibodies? – That’s exactly right, and
it’s called molecular mimicry and one of the fascinating
things about plants, I’m a big fan of plants. I’m also a big plant
predator, don’t get me wrong, but you gotta know who you
can eat and who you can’t eat. You gotta know who you can trust. So plants have had 400 million years to work out a defense system. And we forget that most of our drugs actually began as plant compounds, so plants use chemical warfare. And one of the clever things plants do is they make the proteins in lectins look to resemble other
proteins in our body, particularly our vital organs and when lectins get into our
system, our immune system starts looking for these proteins. And they see a protein
that looks very similar, like on our joint, the synovial
surface, or in our thyroid, or on our pancreas, or quite
frankly, on our nerves. And we attack it, thinking it’s a lectin, not wanting to make a mistake,
we’d rather shoot first and ask questions later. So this is molecular mimicry,
and a plant that has you shoot yourself in the foot, so to speak, wins, because you’re
basically a disabled predator. And anything that a plant can evolve to ensure its survival,
and more importantly, ensure it’s babies’, it’s seeds’ survival, always wins, evolutionary. So they’ve had 400 years to work this out. – [Pedram] 400 million. – [Steven] Yeah, 400 million. – 400 million, so okay. – 400 million years. – So these proteins that we then denature that we can then assimilate
better without the molecular mimicry, ’cause now we’ve
destroyed them, great. We’ve got a nice source of
pressure cooked plant protein, what about eating the grazers
that are eating the grains? The big protein question comes in next, what are you seeing with animal meats and how those are effecting us? – So I grew up in Omaha, Nebraska
and actually in Milwaukee, just above you. And a couple of meat and
cheese capitals of the world, and I hate to say it, but
animal protein is really mischievous to us, particularly
beef, pork, and lamb. Number one, all of these
animals have been fed grains and beans, which are
not their natural food. And I’ve shown that people who
eat even free-range chicken, which is not free range in the least. It’s kept in a warehouse and fed organic corn and soybeans, which will in fact incite an inflammatory
response in my patients. – Because chickens are insectavores, they’re designed to eat bugs. So there’s a big section in the book on if you’re going to eat animal products, try to eat wild shellfish or
wild fish as your go to choice, but there’s a big part of
the book that animal proteins in fact age us quite dramatically. I show some of my research
and other research into why this happens. And there’s certain amino
acids in animal protein that turn on the energy
sensing system in our cells called mtor and these
proteins, ammino acids are far less prevalent in plants. In the Adventist Health
Study, and I was a professor at Loma Linda, the longest
living of the Adventists, and the Adventists are
one of the blue zones, the longest living people in the world. The longest living of the
Adventists are actually vegans and the second longest living
are the Adventist vegetarians who are lacto-ovo vegetarians. The next down are the pescatarians and then there’s the
real cheating Adventists who eat chicken and beef, and they’re further down. – [Pedram] Fascinating. – It’s unfortunately not good for you, plus in the book, people will
learn about a sugar molecule in beef, pork, and lamb called Neu5Gc that incites an autoimmune
attack on our blood vessels. And it also incites cancer
cells to protect themselves and it’s fascinating research. I was involved in it at Loma
Linda xenotransplantation and my editor at Harper-Collins allowed me to put it in the book, ’cause
it’s pretty scary stuff. – Yeah, I’ll say, so then the
question that kind of comes with that is okay, what
happens with food combining to get enough protein? There’s all this kind of fuss
about getting enough protein. – I spoke with many
gorillas and chimpanzees, they don’t have to worry
about food combining. Gorillas eat 16 pounds
of leaves every day. They have more muscle
than we will ever have in our imagination. Horses, all they eat is grass,
they all have more muscle than we will ever have. All the largest animals
on earth are herbivores, they just eat grass and leaves. And we have to forget, we
evolved from that system. We share 99% of our genes
with chimps and gorillas, at our fundamental, we’re an herbivore, we’re
actually a leaf eating herbivore. Now, do I think we need a
lot more fat than gorillas? Yes, but people should
realize that a gorilla, even though he eats all those leaves, actually absorbs a 60% fat
diet, because the bacteria digest the leaves, and the
bacteria actually produce fats and proteins that the gorilla absorbs. We absorb plenty by
letting our gut bacteria do the work for us, by eating
leaves and quality fats like avocados or coconut oil
or, my favorite, olive oil. – Yeah, a pint a week. And so when we talk about
leaves, I mean, we’ve got romaine lettuce. Gimme more, right? What are the leaves that we can get into? – Any of the lettuces, any
of the brassica vegetables. I’m a huge fan of
inulin-containing leaves, of things like radicchio
and Belgian endive, Jerusalem artechokes
are one of my favorite, chicory has a lot of inulin. Eat flowers, broccoli and
cauliflower are flowers. Eat artichokes, they’re flowers. Eat shoots, asparagus is a great plant to eat. All of these things we have been eating for millions of years,
in one form or another and that’s actually what
our genes have been designed to interact with and what
our gut microbiata have been designed to interact with. – Raw versus cooked or steamed? – Yeah, great question. I’ve done raw food for nine months and had fantastic
health, quite frankly. It’s almost impossible
to sustain long-term, even some of the best
of the raw food chefs have reintroduced some
cooked food into their diets, just because it’s so hard to sustain. One of the things we should
realize that made us human, is fire.
– Fire, yep. – And there is some
interesting evidence out of China that vegetarians
who eat a large proportion of their vegetables raw
have a higher incidence of Parkinson’s disease than vegetarians who eat their food cooked. And that’s because there’s
very good experimental evidence that lectins cause Parkinson’s disease, so I think we have to
have a balance between raw and cooked and we do have to remember that cooking really enabled us to
become the modern human with a smaller gut than a gorilla. – Fair enough, and so
what about nutrients, what about supplements? Is there anything that, when
you look at the modern diet, and everyone’s like, we don’t have access to that crap anymore, the soil is dead, whatever, whatever. How do we supplement? – Yeah, that’s very true. One of the things that we
have to realize is that our ancient ancestors ate and interacted with 250 different plant species
on a rotating basis. And these plants were all
in loam soil, there it was, eight feet deep, they had their
own microbiome in the soil, they had huge amounts of
magnesium and trace minerals in the soil and that’s all gone. And even my organic
patients, if you really think that you can duplicate 250
different plant species on a rotating basis, I’ve got oceanfront property
here in Palm Springs to sell you. It can’t be done. And I used to think supplements
made expensive urine, I literally used to tell my patients that. But I can tell now,
from these blood tests, whether someone is actually
taking a supplement, that will actually dilate
their blood vessels or eliminate the stickiness on the inside of the blood vessels, I can
tell if they’ve changed brands and they’re flabbergasted. I’ll go, ehh, you’re not,
did you change brands? Yeah, how did you know? I said, well, because look,
see this is doing this now. About last summer, I decided after sending people to Costco and Trader Joe’s and please,
you can go to those places. Or Amazon, I decided to make
my own line of supplements and it’s at Gundry MD. I finally founded a company
where I could control everything that goes in it. No one tells me what to do, so the things that people
need to get in their diet, supplement-wise. Almost every human being
is deficient in vitamin D, as in dog. Vitamin D, there’s no such
thing as vitamin D toxcity, there’s very strong
evidence that, from my lab, and other people’s labs,
that most people with autoimmune disease have profound
low levels of vitamin D. Often, bare minimum is 5,000
international units a day, I think everyone should
have a vitamin D level of at least 70, preferably 100. I run mine at greater than 120. Most people with autoimmune disease are sitting in the 20s 30s, or 40s. Secondly, we are profoundly
deficient in fish oil. There’s some very good
studies in aging now, that people who have the
highest levels of Omega-3 index, have the largest brains and
the largest areas of memory, the hippocampus, compared
to people who have the lowest levels of
Omega-3, they have the most shrunken brains and the
smallest areas of memory. And this is one place where vegans, and I take care of a lot of
vegans, have to understand, you cannot make long chain,
Omega-3 fats from flaxseed oil. It’s impossible, we do not
have the ability to do that. Take algae-based DHA, and
there is now algae-based EPA as well, and get your levels up. Next, polyphenols. Polyphenols are these plant compounds in dark fruits and dark vegetables
that do an amazing thing when activated by gut bacteria. I’ve written papers on
how polyphenols increase the flexibility of blood vessels. Get polyphenols in your life. Things like grapeseed extract is cheap, things like Pycnogenol, just to use an example, green tea extract has great polyphenols. Coffee has great polyphenols and extra dark chocolate. Try to get above 80% if possible, 70%. Chew on some cocoa nibs. Green phytochemicals, the
green things in plants. People don’t eat enough of
phytochemicals in plants. Get a supplement for it,
but beware green drinks. Almost all green drinks have
wheatgrass and barley grass. I got news for you, you
weren’t designed to eat grass. Just follow your dog’s example, if you eat grass, you’re
designed to throw up. And that’s what Ann Wigmore
invented wheatgrass to do at her Hippocrates Institute, was to try to make her patients vomit. Not a great idea. So those are the biggies, magnesium is so deficient in Americans. As a heart surgeon, I have
to give people two grams of magnesium intravenously
every six hours for 48 hours to get their magnesium up. We forget that insulin has
to have magnesium to work, so take a magnesium supplement,
soak in epsom salts, put magnesium oil on your skin. Get magnesium back in your system. The other thing that is amazing is, we’re seeing a profound
iodine deficiency in people who are using sea salt. Sea salt doesn’t have any iodine, and one of the only smart things
that the federal government ever did, was mandate iodine
in salt in the early 1900s. Get iodized sea salt or
take some iodine drops, or do what I do, I take
spirulina which is an algae. It’s cheap, you can
buy it at Trader Joe’s, and it’s a great source of iodine. – Take it daily.
– Those are all. – No, I love it, love it.
– Yeah, take it daily. Those are a few.
– Yep, that’s a treasure trove of information. I’ve learned a lot today, I’ve really, I’m gonna be reading
this book this weekend. There are a lot of things that
you said are very compelling, I’ve been in this world for a while, lookin’ at all this gluten stuff, and a lot of these patients don’t get better and there are lots of kind
of open items in what we know and so I think that part of
what you’re talking about here, with the lectins and also just
really starting to emphasize the leaves and the things
that we have evolved to eat are huge game-changers. And you’re seeing it, obviously,
in your clinical practices. How long before people
start to feel a difference, if I were to pull off all
lectins and start eating like a gorilla? A week, two weeks, three weeks? – Yeah, most people
notice in a week or two, people with autoimmune
disease or really leaky gut, it’s gonna take longer,
’cause their microbiomes are really pretty screwed up. Let me give you the example,
most of the gut healing protocols out there are basically, if you’re out in a boat on the lake and water is coming in through some holes in the bottom of your boat, you can bail with a
bucket, and keep the water out of your boat, but
if more water comes in, you’re gonna need a
bigger and bigger bucket. And most of these gut healing… (coughs)
Excuse me. Protocols are just bailing water. So what I like to do is seal the holes. And once you seal the holes, you don’t need a bucket anymore. And I’m convinced that
things like lectins, things like NSAIDs, are really
the cause of these holes and getting lectins
out, first and foremost, allows you to heal yourself. – Do you have a list of all the lectin, high-lectin foods in the book? – Yep, yep, there’s a just say no list, and then there’s a just say yes list. – Love it. – And then there’s a list of
the seven deadly disruptors that have really let lectins on the loose in our body and it’s pretty fascinating what some of these are. – Yep, I love it. The book is called The Plant
Paradox, Doctor Stephen Gundry. Only about an hour and
a half away from me, out in the desert, here in California. I am out there now and again
and one of these times, I’m gonna come pay you a visit. I’m gonna read the book first, because there’s a lot of things in here that I need to know, and a
couple of things that just immediately come to mind with
my wife and my mother-in-law who are having some issues
and my mother-in-law’s been gluten free for a while and
she’s still not resolved. So it’s like, okay, hold on. – Yep, that’s what many of
the people exactly who I see. They don’t understand, you
know, they’re gluten free and stuff are still happening. – Yep, yep. Thank you for doing the work that you do, thank you for not doing heart surgery, and going the harder road
and playing the educator. It’s a big transition to
put in that kind of work, so I commend you on the
honorable decision that you made to be able to help more people this way. – Well thanks a lot, and a pleasure. I enjoy your work as well and
please stop by and see me. – Will do, I’ll be paying you a visit. Let me know what you think and
get the book, read the book. I’m going to read the book this weekend and I’m gonna start making some changes, I’ll report back to you,
let’s do this together. It’s Doctor Pedram Shojai, the Urban Monk. I will see you next time. (groovy rock music)

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100 thoughts on “Healthy Foods that Can Actually Harm You with Guest Dr. Steven Gundry

  1. Gundry is a quack who is only interested in selling his anti-lectin drugs and does not care that he is harming people. Maybe you would like to buy his make-up products instead, if you doubt me then listen to Dr Greger at nutrition.org who thinks he is a quack also.

  2. This guy is the biggest wind bag I've experienced in my life. He has a 30-60 minute video on aol that that portrays itself as a news even and he repeats himself and graphics in dozens of ways, but says nothing…..that he's going to reveal which health foods are bad for us but never get to it, because in the end he is selling something…….he's a capitalist at heart, not a kind old doctor that wants to help us….he uses proven marketing techniques to try to hook us into what he's selling. At the end of the video a person has invested so much time, they feel to make that much time in their life they will never get back they will buy the product.

  3. "We come from tree living animals. We ate leaves …"  ????  REALLY???  I did not come from a tree living animal!!!!

  4. I'm going to toss out the bullshit flag at the risk of ANYONE posting information that supports these "theories" and i'm talking about information from an accredited MEDICAL JOURNAL.

  5. If you guys are looking for extensive knowledge on nutrition to make up your own mind on what foods you should eat. I recommend a healthy look into the Weston Price studies, what Gundry says and Paul Chek's personal research

  6. In one video the doc mentions how very large gorillas eat an average of 16lbs of greens a day and that maintains their massive size and large muscel mass, and here the plant compounds have stunted the asians throughout their history. How can this be?

  7. This guy's book makes no sense at all. If you think he's so smart why don't you do research into his references. People have been checking them out and finding that they do NOT support this theory. This guy has absolutely no training in nutrition, it's not his speciality. This whole set-up smacks of Atkins and his BS. Anyone is going to feel better off of sugar, junk food, processed foods etc.

  8. I wonder, what about us old guys that dont react to any food! I eat anything that moves and grows and never had an issue with anything! by the way, I am scandinavian with family roots back to before year 1300 in norway.

  9. I use my facial skin to determine the toxicity of my food. I stopped eating carbs, opting to only eat meat, eggs, dairy and fish and my skin actually started to get better. Then I ate some sweet potatoes, rice, tomatoes, and other veggies, some bread and lo-and-behold my """"seborrheic dermatitis"""" partially came back. I wish I could bitch slap every doctor for never making the connection between face and head rashes and diet. Bunch of misleading cunts they are!

  10. Dr. Gundry brings much of his work to the public as a result of education and experience, and surprisingly much of what he says is supported by experts, He merely puts his thinking in combination with others in the process creating a new way of eating. There is nothing he recommends that can hurt you and much that can help. The one point where he departs from most of the plant-based advocates is with the nightshade family, and this makes perfect sense when you think about it. These plants cause inflammation exciting the immune system, logically that makes perfect sense. I am plant-based and will incorporate his thinking into my regimen and will see what happens. His teaching makes sense to me.

  11. WOW, so many experts making comments on a subjects they know nothing about….
    Dr. Grundy is a well known surgeon and has spent around 20 years researching this subject.

  12. The Swedish people documented in Weston Prices book ate whole grain rye bread. They had perfect health! And he also documented the negative health effects of white flour. Why would the rich people eat white flour if it didnt make you healthier or stronger? Price's work showed the white flour was void of nutrient and depleted the body of nutrients.

  13. A lot BS from this doctor. I am surprised that Dr Pedram who is just releasing Interconnect is interviewing Dr Guidry. I am surprised "

  14. HIS relative may be a monkey BUT I'M NOT RELATED TO ANY!!!!! and God gave us MEAT in moderation. I will eat what Yeshua eat & that had meat in eat. ENOUGH SAID

  15. This is wonderful, thank you so much. I do have Dr. Gundry's three books. I have been self healing for the past 24 months and I know that this is my issue lectins sensitive coupled with leaky gut. have not had psoriasis for over a year, now I am dealing with a second bout of gout (where I need assistance of a wheelchair cannot walk) I remain positive and feel cured already 🙂

  16. As a vegetarian, my diet consists largely of beans, grains and nightshade veggies. These are considered to be excellent for our health! I now may have to make some drastic changes. Are there differing views?

  17. The Chinese used to eat a diet that was 90% white rice.They had almost no heart disease or diabetes and far less cancer than Americans.That is a strong argument for starches.

  18. Vegan Indians and carnivore Inuit lived relatively normal human life spans and most likely died from similar age related diseases. The human body's ability to adapt to the variety of food resources that the earth gives is proven by the areas that humans have exploited and inhabited…all corners of the planet. I suspect it is TOO MUCH FOOD and NO ACTIVITY rather than any specific food that is shortening life spans. Lets do a study. Take Dr. Gundry's diet plan and eat double or triple the required amount of daily calories and I guarantee you will get all of the same problems found when eating any other diet.

  19. We are created by God, that said we should not eat any kind of shell fish or fish without scale and pork. With that being said, I'll stand by God's word.

  20. Why didn’t u make a list of foods and why???
    I’m not gona waist my time!!!
    👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾👎🏾

  21. Great interview very informative. But I must comment that cursing it's very unprofessional of an interviewer especially when it's done two times within a matter of 2 minutes

  22. Been eating his way for 8 months. Lost 50lbs, no joint pain, feel great. Don’t listen to the idiotic comments here. Most are part of the continued poisoning of the populous. This guy actually practices his methods on a day to day basis with his patients.

    Smoking is bad for you but it’s just a smoke screen for the poisoned food supply our farmers happily take part in.

  23. the Human body, specifically the digestive system, was not genetically purposed for digestion of meat. and yes there is lots of science to back this.

  24. I have never tolerated bell peppers and assumed I had an allergy. As my GI problems increased as I entered my 40's, I went to an allergist and serum IgG antibody tests showed no allergies to anything including peppers. However, I knew this was not the whole story because I was at a point where I could not tolerate even a tiny amount of bell pepper. The fact that even a tiny amount caused me GI distress was indicative of an allergy cascade. I concluded that I had an IgA or IgM mediated allergy and did not yet have IgG antibodies which was why it was not detected in serum. No doctor was interested in discussing my theory with me but no matter, I knew I could not eat peppers.
    Fast forward a few more years and I was having frequent bouts of "stomach flu" with no fever and not contagious to anyone in my family. I had terrible GI symptoms for a few days and serious joint pain but without a fever. The turning point in my life occurred when I purchased a Vitamix blender and prepared a raw tomato soup. I was bedridden for a week and I happened to read a book called Pain Free In 60 Days which talked about the NightShade category of plants and how they are so irritating to some people that the GI inflammation causes systemic inflammation and joint pain.
    I realized that I had become gradually very sensitive to all nightshade plants. Once I cut out all nightshade plants, I was cured of GI problems and arthritis. No joke I had to scientifically and systematically map out my own food sensitivities. I had to take my health into my own hands. When I tell people about this they look at me like I am crazy and despite their own GI pain, they are not willing to give up nightshades even for a couple of weeks. My response is always the same: Then you must not be in enough pain.

  25. With the exception of the fact that most plants are probably not good for us, his advice regarding veganism is total bullshit. If you want your teeth to fall out of your head, want to look totally sucked up and emaciated…. unless you want to look like a common crackhead, eat meat. We are carnivores.

  26. You are right and wrong, maybe the meat and Dairy come from Cows feed it with Grain, but is better from Hormonal view rather than most of the new processed food or legumes from mosanto, what will you eat?

  27. I’ve been doing what what doctor Gundry says exactly for the last 12 weeks, I have lost 30 pounds, I follow it exactly like both his books say, the plant paradox, and the longevity paradox, I have tried for many years to lose stubborn fat I am 63 years old, and feeling better than ever thank you Dr Gundry I couldn’t figure out what was wrong , I understand that you sacrificed to help other people, thank you Dr Gundry

  28. his heart is in the right place but the problem with his information is he has no scientific studies to back it up!

  29. Sorry Guidry is an embarrassing piece of crap. He is unfortunately way off base . Think and study for yourself people. This guy is an ass.
    B

  30. Dear Dr I just got your vital reds and see it has a lots of fruits but in your books you say fruits have a lot of sugars
    So this sounds contradictory can you expand on this

  31. I'm reducing lectins, not eliminating them. Or dumping grains. You need the fiber from grains, and other nutrients. I do sprouted grains, and soaked, boiled beans. You can't eliminate food groups. From 'Going lectin-free is the latest pseudoscience diet fad': It’s critical to note that the majority of lectin studies have been
    done with isolated lectins, not actual foods, and have been conducted in
    test tubes or in animals, not in people. So how can these online health
    gurus conclusively link lectin-containing foods to certain health
    issues when clinical trials in humans have not even been conducted yet? Many rely on what we know for sure: Some lectins are toxic. But no one eats those ! For example, lectins in raw or undercooked kidney beans can
    cause symptoms that mimic food poisoning, such as vomiting and
    diarrhea. But that doesn’t mean no one should eat any beans— it just
    means we can’t eat raw kidney beans. Cook your beans Have you ever crunched into a raw kidney bean? I didn’t think so. Hard as
    rocks, all beans and lentils would be inedible in their raw form. Boiling beans
    for 30 minutes eradicates most, if not all, of the lectins. Note that
    soaking beans overnight does not remove enough lectin, and don’t rely on slow cookers when cooking beans from scratch — the machine doesn’t get hot enough to destroy lectins. Prepared properly, beans have low lectin levels and are safe to eat. Grains can also be boiled to reduce lectin content. Think about quinoa, rice and barley — boiled first, then eaten, right? Fermenting and sprouting foods can also help reduce lectin content. Friendly bacteria in the fermentation process digests the anti-nutrients, and can reduce lectins by up to 95 percent.                                                                                                                                                    It’s a fad. Articles that promote the lectin-free diet cite it as a miraculous cure-all for arthritis, multiple sclerosis and even cancer. That’s the first sign it’s a fad — overblown promises of astonishing health benefits before any clinical proof exists. The next sign of a fad is a long list of foods to eliminate. What’s not allowed on the lectin-free diet? Whole grains, beans, peas, lentils, nuts, seeds, tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, dairy, eggs and fruit — they’re all out. That’s pretty much my entire grocery list. Obviously this diet is not sustainable, and it unnecessarily cuts out a wide range of nutritious ingredients.

  32. Dr. Gundry's diet is easy to follow. I've also found some helpful info on this blog. https://headoverheelshealth.org/

  33. So processing is still a bad thing? Seems like they were saying that the more processed a food is then the safer it is.

  34. So nightshades have developed a defence system but leaves and tubers haven't. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

  35. Wait a minute. The Bible has a historical record starting from 2000 years ago to 6000 years ago. We read that the people back then did in fact eat grains. They did in fact eat vegetables. It's recorded fact.

  36. Excuse me Doctor…
    I feel horrible after I eat white rice.
    And this happens to several of my friends as well.
    White and brown rice are NOT good foods to eat.
    Moreover, root vegetables are terrible foods to eat for people who have SIBO or H. pylori … and most North Americans are suffering with H. Pylori and SIBO. The best diet is green vegetables, fish, meat, chicken, olive oil, sprouted and fermented chia/flax, coconut yogurt, fermented vegetables, etc. But root vegetables are not good for most people. You can make Keto bread and crackers with non lectin foods. And sends are fine to eat as long as you ferment them.

    I take your advice Doctor with a grain of salt.

    I’m a Certified Naturopath and Nutritionist with 20 years experience.

    P.S. how much were you paid by the billionaire ELITES to spew out the narrative that grass fed organic meat and chicken ages you?
    That is NOT fact and highly questionable.

  37. ROUNDUP IN VACCINES https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va3RXamJAOo It seems there is a lot of real info and dis info out there. What about coffee beans and soy beans ( do they also contain lectins). What about seeds that contain high amounts of F17 ( cancer reverser ? ) What about the fact that white bread has had the goodness removed ( iodine ), and junk added. Is wholemeal and multi grain bread better or worse than white. What about people with diabetes 2 , who are told not to eat most fruit…. which actually reverses diabetes 2 ( vitamin C ). Is salt good or bad for you ? Is it better to eat the products of grass fed cows ( vitamin K2-7)… or do you run the risk of your digestive juices also eating your stomach lining ( apparently they both have 17 fat chains, and the acid can't tell the difference). But the GcMAF in raw milk is a natural part of the immune system found in all animals, that prevents dozens of diseases from occuring…. and yet our bodies aren't producing enough of it ( probably because of our diets ) ! I think the only true way of finding out what foods are good for you… is to look at what foods etc. are being banned !

  38. He is incorrect regarding our ability to absorb protein from leaves because that’s what gorillas do. Gorillas and chimps have a different digestive system than humans, they can break down cellulose in greens and absorb the protein whereas humans cannot, the cellulose passes through us undigested.

  39. He is wrong. I was raised on peanut butter. Wheat germ and gluten. Everyday. 18 years. Healthy and strong. Professional athlete. Im 60 now. Playing basketball everday. Running 7 minute miles. Doing gymnastics. Its all genes. You either are born with good genes turned on. Or you are weak. I got lucky. I have no allergies. And my doctor said im the healthiest man in his practice. Everyone is different. You can not bulk a diet and say its good fir everyone

  40. why does he use the term Gly-phos-FATES, when it’s clearly, Gly-pho-SATE???? there is only ONE “EFF” sound in the word. is this guy a shill?

  41. TOTAL and udder bull shit.
    i take a MINIMUM of two regular strength (200mg x 2), EVRY day, and often as many as 4 or even 6 daily, depending on aches and pains. have for over 10 years. i’m now 60 and suffer NO gut nor digestive nor cardiac issues. 185 lbs, vegetarian. best shape of my life presently. run 5 kms 3x/week, skate 3 hours 3x/week, and walk 30 kms/week (10kms 3x/week). tell me about advil (ibuprofen ) now. are we talking class action suit if these pharmacist KNEW/KNOW such dangers and are withholding facts or are u full of shit?

  42. a ah…now we see what this is about, at the 40:00 mark, it’s about his books and vitamin supplement sales at costco, trader jo3s and amazon…fucking SHILL

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